I think he only did what was right. It's too much of a risk to go off to the restroom, the trash can is already there, and you can't hold it forever. Had it been a real emergency, that would have been the only option. These drills are meant to be treated as real. I think he did the right thing.

_______
I'm so good at clogging up toilets, I can make mine back up when there's nothing in it.

I think I agree. At first, I didn't; I was thinking that "This was only a drill."

But I've changed my mind. Here is a man who, in the course of his everyday job teaching children, has the reality of one day possibly being the only person standing between some crazy bastard with a loaded gun and the slaughter of his young charges.

In light of this sad reality, I think he was right to go ahead and practice as though the school really WAS under siege.

Go Phil.

I hate yuppies. Coron sounds like one of those mini-van driving soccer moms who think their shit don't stink because they sell real estate for a living. If her some was going to "Charlestown Academy" in the first place, it sounds like she and her shithead insurance salesman husband were in full swing of pretending to be rich.

I have seen the types, always looking for a way to sue someone just to get more money. Spend their vacation at the same timeshare every year because they have no imagination to do anything else. They pretend to have fun with the latest thrill, just because everyone else is doing it, even if secretly they do NOT have fun. They drive like they belong in the Indianapolis 500, only stupider. Everything, from their cars, to their clothes, to their four bedroom, white trimmed, arched doorwayed ranch house, is exactly the same as their other closed-minded yuppy neighbors. And they all watch horrible shows like Big Brother and American Idol, where everyone is nasty to each other, and these little fucks find it FUNNY!

The pathetic fuckers need to get a life!

I think the teacher's idea was a good one considering the emergency. You go!

_______
I was a category five! Category five, I tell you! Get it right or I'll be back to PROVE IT!!!!- Katrina

The sickest part of this story is found in the last line: the teacher is placed on administrative leave!? You've gotta be kidding me! I wonder how many parents would have complained had the teacher NOT come up with his creative solution, and left the kids with no option but shitting themselves. I really pity the Weldon boy: now there is a Shameful Shitter-in-training if ever there was one.

I keep thinking back to the stories about open stalls and it being a bonding experience. Well, the students in that class are now bonded closer and have more trust and understanding. I say bravo.

_______
Number One . . . I order you to take a number two.

The other parents should form a posse to get Phil BACK in the classroom. He sounds like the kind of guy I'd appreciate teaching my kids.

He didn't make them do it in front of people; and he didn't take kids into the corner with the can himself. He had the children team together to provide the privacy.

I agree with NIL; the kids were taught a good lesson that day. There was an obvious problem, and they all worked together to come up with an appropriate solution. THEY HELPED EACH OTHER!

Imagine that. Those kids learned that they needed to help each other out of a situation.

Once again, BRAVO PHIL!

I also want to drop my Kudos at this pool. Good job, Mr. Frandino. You did the right thing.

If I had children in that school district, I would get the PTA involved into voting that associate superintendent, Patricia Yandle, OUT. She's the one that suggested encouraging the kids to think on something other than the bathroom. This kind of thinking shows an obvious lack of concern for the students health, safety and comfort. To think she would rather these children endure the pain and discomfort of needing to go, and to suffer through the humiliation of going in their clothes and sitting in it until the lockdown is done... "Damn her!" is all I can say. I don't want someone like that managing any schools that my children would attend.

Oh, looky what I found on the Charleston School District website:

District 10 (St. Andrews/West Ashley)
Patricia Yandle MS & HS / Dr. Vashti Washington ES, Associate Superintendent
843-763-1500; FAX 769-2251
725 Wappoo Road, Charleston, SC 29407-5861

AND:

Leadership & Professional Development
Patricia Yandle, Associate Superintendent
(843) 937-6406; (FAX 937-6349)
75 Calhoun St., Charleston, SC 29401

I guess she has two offices. No email address was listed, but I think she should expect some angry letters and/or phone calls from the PoopReport task force.

Maybe we should print this page as is and mail it to her.

_______
PooperGal
"Searching for the Origin of the Feces"

I think this pooper did the right thing, if I was a kid I would have pooped on the floor if I had to go and it was a lockdown with some teacher that told me to think about other things besides the bathroom.

Great idea! Sort of like a petition showing what the masses think of the whole deal.

_______
I'm so good at clogging up toilets, I can make mine back up when there's nothing in it.

Fart Poopie,
Oops. You're right! It was Yandle who said she'd "encourage" the kids to think of something else. Thanks for the catch. I should have read the original article more carefully.

The soccer mom who yanked her kid still needs to be dope slapped!

_______
PooperGal
"Searching for the Origin of the Feces"

I think it's a bit sad that the school officials or principal or whoever didn't realize this would have to be addressed. Sounds like a clear cut case of "Let's pass the buck."

Why this guy didn't say "TIME OUT - we haven't thought of this, and I want approval first" and ask the principal right there and then how to proceed is beyond me. I would have covered my ass before anything else.

This had "possibly stupid idea that might be me fired" written all over it. He could have very well addressed the situation after the drill so the school would have a procedure worked out without this mess going down.

_______
.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

Daphne, as I alluded to in my post, it sounds to me like this guy was screwed whichever way he chose to handle the situation. Addressing the problem AFTER the drill still may have left several sets of muddy drawers in the aftermath.
The story also implies (by omission) that Frandino's class was the only one in the whole school that day that had this problem: I find that hard to believe. Thus, when the all-clear bell rang I have to assume that the halls were filled with the sweet smell of lumpy Levi's.
BTW, did you notice the street address for District 10? Wappoo Rd? I know there's a joke in there somewhere....

I think Daphne does have a point there. If the teacher KNEW this was a drill, it would have made sense for him to call the principal's office and ask how to procede since the need was urgent. But he also acted with the children's best interest in mind and should be commended, not condemned. These uppity parents need to get over themselves!

_______
White Castle: Eat em by the stack, shoot em out the back!

The kids just shat in a can,
And I am screwed, Oh man!
But what can you do
When a kids gotta poo?
The shit is hitting the fan.

Awesome report as always PooperGal, I died laughing reading "easy-peasy". I think the teacher in question did the right thing. I'm disturbed though that there is a need for drills of this nature. There are way more workplace shootings and such than there are in schools and I highly doubt most people would accept a drill like this in their workplace.

My worry is this is just another way of keeping kids focused on the dangers in society...much like other totalitarian regimes focus on an us versus them approach. I think the time spent drilling kids on how to avoid getting shot by some angry whacked out kid would be better spent discussing why bullying and disrespecting fellow students is so wrong. Most of these kids that "go off" are loners that have been taunted and shunned by their peers and have such low self esteem that ending their life along with the lives of their taunters seems like a logical choice. Maybe we should get them to watch The Breakfast Club (just joking) instead of teaching covert hiding tactics. Maybe education would stop just one of these senseless shooting incidents. Seems to me we are closing the barn door after the horse has already left.

Good to have you back in the fold Anomalous Coward.

Sorry, double posted, this is a reminder to all you wireless users, just because you get the "cannont connect to www.poopreport.com" does not mean your post has not been received.

He should have had them poop on some note book paper. That way, it could be crumpled in to shit bombs which could be thrown at the gun men.
_______
Sir SamDamnit!
The Emir of Crapistan
Join The Poop Reporter's Lounge

I agree with Fudgepump. Something is crappy here! There were no other poopers in any other schoolrooms? No poopypants elsewhere in the building? Only fifth graders in immediate need of releif? It don't pile up to me!

If he hadn't had made arrangements for these kids to heave havanas in the trash can, then the same complaining parents would be upset that he hadn't let them. I bet the mother is even offended at farts.

Instead of complaining, she should stop to give thanks to the all the men and women of our armed services who fight for her mere right to complain, which she has abused. A friend of mine said a shipmate of his had to crap in his own lunchbox because he couldn't leave his post during a training exercise.

In short, the complaining mother should pull some community service helping the constipated.

Here's the thing I'm wondering about. Throughout my elementary, middle school and high school career, I can NEVER remember a whole bunch of kids having to go to the bathroom during a one-hour span of time. Once in a great while, someone asked permission to leave to go to the bathroom. How is it that all of these kids had to go at the same time?

Seems like this entire scenario is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The intruder alert terrified the kids and that stimulated their bowels which otherwise would not have been stimulated during such a compressed period of time.

Under these extreme circumstances, what took place should not have been questioned at all.
And the intruder alerts need to be discontinued. What's next? 9/11 drills in office buildings?

Let's take a deep breath and try to live as normally as possible. There's plenty of stress to go around right now.

"SamDamnit (953) -- 10.17.2006--He should have had them poop on some note book paper. That way, it could be crumpled in to shit bombs which could be thrown at the gun men"

Oooh! Or in empty lunch bags! I bet poop COULD be used as a weapon, if it came down to it!

Back in the 1950s and '60s, during the "Cold War" (when people were afraid of Russians and Communism... and not yet of Muslims), schools and even communities held Civil Defense air raid drills.

Kids would have to sit under their desks or in the halls with their hands on top of their heads to "protect" them against nuclear bombs being dropped on their building.

Yup.

While with the exception of Pearl Harbor and the 9/11 attacks we have not had any real air raids, but we do seem to have a bigger proportion of armed crazies entering schools and killing people. So, it's important to have a plan on the boards for how to handle such an occasion. But, I don't think that you can really practice for it and expect the procedure to become second nature to the kids (or the adults) if/when the Real Thing happens.

On a related note... Anyone remember the movie "Kindergarten Cop" with Ahhhnold as the star? "Stranger Alert" drills were a big part of the storyline.

_______
PooperGal
"Searching for the Origin of the Feces"

The 5th grade teacher, intruder-alert drill, and a few kids needing to poop: ummm! The anwer is simple--understanding and experiencing the meaning of a one-syllable and two letter word, NO! I'm a 40-something mother of three-two girls and a boy--who got in on the end of the Cold War. That being said, the word I learned and have tried to teach my family (ages 16 to 29) is that you can't always do what you want when you want to.

I grew up in the Midwest and we had the extremes of four seasons. When I reported to my elementary school in the morning if it wasn't raining, snowing or very cold, there was a wooden red sign on the door that said OUT. You played outside until five minutes before nine when school began. On several occasions I had to have my BM but I had to wait. Lesson learned, I tried hard to have it before I left home for my five block walk to school.

Also, there were days when my BM would start coming after lunch--sometimes as late as our 3 p.m. dismissal. If I didn't go then, I learned that I had to hold it until I got home. On a couple of occasions, I felt like I was going to explode as I walked home and I remember one time--probably when I was about 11--when I stopped in an emergency at a gas station, but the womens room door was locked and the attendent refused to give me the key without my parents. Sure, I thought he was the biggest bastard on earth (he also cussed at me when I objected) but I learned the meaning of "no".

On another occasion, this time in junior high I was just back from having the flu and I asked to use the nurse's bathroom since I didn't think I could wait in the long lines. She said "no" because it could open the floodgates of other students not wanting to wait their turn in lines. I went back upstairs, got in line, had my BM, and still made it to my post-lunch math class. My point is that saying "no" to going to the bathroom immediately and upon demand isn't bad, and indeed on of the "life lessons" we carry with us 30 years after 1967's incident of being told "no".

I'd still suggest that you take into consideration that high-stress situations, which "intruder alert" drills can become, can cause bladders and bowels to become hyperactive. I doubt those kids were thrilled about having classmates standing around them while they dumped or wizzed into a bucket. They did it because they had no other choice.

Btw, when I was in 4th grade, I had a bitch of a teacher who would never let me go to the bathroom during homeroom at the end of the day. She said I could wait until I got home to go. I had to rush to the bus when the bell rang, so couldn't stop at the girls' room on the way out.

Result: I pee'd my pants EVERY DAY as I ran up the driveway, desperately trying to get to the bathroom in time. When my mother found out what was happening, she yanked me out of that school and had me transferred. Thanks, Mom!

_______
PooperGal
"Searching for the Origin of the Feces"

Phyliss, you have a point. However, with recent pansy-ass yuppies taking over our culture recently, saying "no" is construed as abuse. If Phil had said "no", that same mother would have marched down to the school and screamed at Phil, calling for his dismissal on grounds that he didn't give her son special treatment for some imaginary condition. He was pretty much damned the day he because a teacher in a 21st century school.

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I was a category five! Category five, I tell you! Get it right or I'll be back to PROVE IT!!!!- Katrina

The only point Phyllis has is that incredibly hard turd nugget sticking out of her butt that she's been holding in since 1986.

The first thing that happens to kids during emergencies is that their little adrenaline systems go nuts like everyone's in an emergency, and adrenaline can raise the metabolism, get the blood pumping, and make you want to shit your pants.

Kids have a bladder one half the size of an adult's, and while it's nice to consider the importance of making kids control themselves at times, the concept of an adult telling another, smaller human being when and when they can't empty their bladder or colon is bullshit. Sorry Phyllis, but there's absolutely no lesson learned from telling a child to ignore signals that their bodies are sending.

I taught my kids the meaning of the word NO by being a consistent parent who was consistent in discipline and rewards. What a concept.

_______
.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

I recall a relatively recent posting on this site about a schoolgirl who was taking a shit and had to stay on the stool during her school's intruder drill. Wasn't there another one who was on the shitter and chose to get off and leave for a fire drill? To the teacher's defense, this seems to be a growing problem and there's no concrete answers. Eventually, something will probably be added to that school district's procedure manual. The situation is sad because the students are the victims of toxic parents. Ten years ago when I was in middle school I was taking my daily shit,when a about six stalls down I heard a crash, a splash and crying. Within 30 seconds I was up and out to find what I think was a developmentally challenged girl, who because she was going to the bathroom unassisted, forgot to drop the toilet seat and..fell in. Although she was only shaken up, the administrators in the office were surely interested in attending to her and apologizing as to why none of the designated people were accompanying her. I'm sure they were worried about her parents suing the school. Something tells me the trashcan pooping incident is probably headed for the courts. That's all we need on a law office shingle: specializing in pee/poop litigation!

I'm old enough to remember the 'Duck Under The Desk Nuclear Bomb' Drills as a wee thing in the 'Fifties. Yes, retrospectively it's 'Monty Python' or 'SNL' skit stuff. As if ducking under your desk would prevent you from being dematerialized.

But here's the point. These drills lasted, oh, maybe a minute or two. These intruder alert lockdowns lasted an hour. Sorry. Bad idea. And look what happened to the little kids.

Having a plan ready and having the teachers familiar with it would certainly be appropriate. Terrorizing the kids is not.

Think about it. Fire drills last about five minutes. Having these impressionable little minds sit and stew for an hour because they are rehearsing for the time when someone may come in and try to harm them is very bad psychology and even worse physiological training.

I posted earlier that this should be discontinued in this form. I hope the school system re-evaluates, instead of coming down hard on teachers with a mess on their hands. Literally.

This Coron sounds like a real gem. Litigation freaks drive me nuts. And Coron would sue if a nut job stormed the scool and harmed her child.

I think the teacher did a good job but, yuppie's try to create a perfect world, and only screw thing up further than they were prior.

I hate it when someone does something good, and someone else comes along and tries to reinvent the wheel, only to create a worse/inefficient system.

By the way TSV, I dispise reality TV as well.

All in all, an hour is a strech but, I have to say that the teacher did nothing wrong.
_______
It's not nice to fool mother nature.

While I don't fully agree with Phyllis, her point is well taken in that its not going to hurt a kid--even at the 5th grade level which in my districts is the first year of middle school--that sometimes you're going to have to wait. I'm 20, an education major, and I just did a 40-hour practicum (pre-practice teaching experience) in a 800-student middle school. I, as well as my 35-year veteran cooperating teacher were suspicious of the frequency with which some of the students asked to go to the bathroom. This was especially true before tests, during "quiet time" writing, and during an admittedly boring guest speaker we had. Despite our encouagement, students fail to use the bathroom during defined break periods or during their lunch period. What's wrong with going in and trying to pee before a district writing assessment is given rather than 20 minutes into the project? Going to the bathroom and frequently missing crucial classtime for it is becoming increasingly viewed as an "entitlement" that must be granted immediately. On several occasions, I've gone to the girls' room down the hall from our classroom only to find the student spending an extreme amount of time (sometimes more than 15 minutes)lingering in the bathroom just to stall or kill time. As an example, I found one girl SITTING IN THE STALL PANTS UP and she admitted she was just killing time. Another was caught by our hall monitor way up on second floor using the facilities--her explanation was that she didn't feel comfortable using our designated restroom which is just a few feet from our classroom. Since I'm only about 10years older than my students, I remember how my friends and I stretched the truth about needing to go the the bathroom "bad" sometimes, only to breakup the boredom. This was especially the case when we had a substitute who seemed to be vulnerable. If Phyllis would have been my classroom teacher, sure I would have hated her rules at the time, but I sure would have respected the stand she took now! In situations like the current intruder-alert case, parents, although well intended, need to back off in their criticism of the teacher who is guilty of nothing more than overreacting in a tough situation. Most of those students could have waited and, chances are, there would have been no accidents.

Daphne, the reason I say Phyliss makes a good point is that I remember being in elementary school and there was a certain sheep mentality in the classroom. If one kid had to go to the bathroom, suddenly three million others had to do the same. If one kid needed a drink of water, all of a sudden so did half the rest of the class. When the kids did not know that some other kid needed to use the bathroom or get a drink of water or what have you, nothing happened. I think possibly, while I commend Phil's methods of creativity in a situation, that he could have handled the first few kids possibly in a more private, quiet manner. (Most classrooms have closets or large pieces of furniture to hide behind.) I am guessing that a number of these kids didn't have to go until they saw the one or two genuine bathroom emergencies. My dad quit working at a school because the kids could actually hit him and get away with it. Whenever they were disciplined, the parents threatened to sue for "squelching my child's imagination". I am sure that Caron is one of those type of yuppy bitches. Phil would have been damned no matter which direction he chose to go, because she would have been back in his face for saying "no" to her kid.

TBW, I think that is the point of the lockdowns. I don't think their purpose is to practice for an intruder, I think it is to incite terror.

Our country today is based on scaring people. Our kids are not exempt from this method of control. Just the idea that some of the kids were so scared they had to shit tells you just how much control this fear has over them. And probably their parents.

As a fifth grader I NEVER had to suddenly poop when something scared me. (In fact, the exact opposite always happened and still does.) Then again, I was not fed daily doses of "Channel One" over the multi-media system, I didn't come home from school and get it fed to me by my yuppy parents staring like zombies at the TV news all night, and I didn't have teachers who jumped at the slightest strange sound. I did not have this constant ring of terror and paranoia around me at all times, even if my fifth grade year was in the thick of the Gulf War.

Just the sheer amount of fear, the people terrified that a Muslim boogy man is hiding under their beds, tells you just how far this has gone. Has anyone else recently noticed how many restaurants, airports, state and federal government buildings, and other public places have installed TVs for the sheer purpose of playing the news all day? All these televisions were installed post 9/11. It is eerie at an almost sci-fi level. Plus, I must also note that each of these televisions plays strictly Fox News and no other. Not even CNN. Fox's runner at the bottom of the screen flashes news events as the reporter talks, always, and I mean ALWAYS, interspersed with random terror alert flashes.

It is reminiscent of the McCarthy Era, when kids were chased under their desks by those "duck and cover drills" that TBW mentioned. In the case of the McCarthy Era, the nuclear threat was probably ligitimate because of the number of paranoid governments with their fingers on little red buttons. (It has not changed. Look at North Korea.) The terrorist threat has been there for a long time, but until 9/11 no one paid attention. Now, thanks to some jerks who have found a way to profit from fear, America is bred into a bunch of terrorized, shaking mice.

In light of what I have just written, I ask you all. Why should a terrorist attack when he has already achieved what he wanted? Fear.

_______
I was a category five! Category five, I tell you! Get it right or I'll be back to PROVE IT!!!!- Katrina

I still think that the five kids that had to "go" really needed to. They likely didn't care for the idea of having a human shield of classmates surrounding them, or everyone hearing the sounds of their poop/pee hitting metal. Humiliation comes easily to children.

It wasn't like the whole class got brainwashed into pee/poop panic. It was five kids who really had to go. Under the circumstances, the teacher did the right thing, IMO.

TSV wrote: "In light of what I have just written, I ask you all. Why should a terrorist attack when he has already achieved what he wanted? Fear."

To which I reply:[JOKING MODE]Then don't give in to what the terrorists want! Show that we aren't afraid by letting our kids poop in a barrel during those terrorist intruder drills.[/JOKING MODE]

_______
PooperGal
"Searching for the Origin of the Feces"

TSV, this goes show that good people are getting harder to find.

(Dating myself), I was in the fifth grade in 1987 (ouch). I look back and now realize how simple the 80's really were.

My dad was older. He grew up in the Depression. If he said no it was final, and if us kids mouthed of to him, we could look forward to a good kick in the ass. But now with all of the yuppies, suddenly everyone has to say yes and ok, like TSV said "no is considered abuse" and I feel that this is the reason that people are less caring than they were when I grew up.

I personally do lots of good for people, and many times I get odd looks, or someone will say to me "I wish there were more people like you in the world". It is our job to look out for one another.

It is an adult's job to protect children. The parents should be telling the children, not the children telling the parents. I would be glad having this teacher, teaching my kids. I would know that they would be safe with him if something bad happened.

Great work Mr. Frandino

As for the yuppies, take a good look at what is happening to our society. Isn't it time to go back to the way things were?
_______
It's not nice to fool mother nature.

I agree with the information BriAnne and Phyllis offer. Kids, just like adults, are not always going to be able to use a restroom when they want to. I had an aunt who a number of years ago put together some kind of rhyme (I can only recall two words, though, "evaluate" and "wait.") For example, I work in a cereal factory and the assembly line is such that we have defined breaks. Any deviation requires a supervisor to approve. Let's say I immediately wanted to go to the bathroom, another worker on the line who is cross-trained would be designated to do not only their job but mine also. Therefore, I don't take unscheduled "breaks" even though sometimes I "hold it" a bit until 10:15 and 2:30 roll around. When I had to go to court on a speeding ticket, I called to have the date changed so that it would fall on my vacation week. I had no choice this summer but take my 5-year-old son and eight year old daughter with me. Just after the courtroom started operations, my son gave me the potty signal. I had to say NO and redirect his attention to people and other activity in the courtroom because if I took him out, my name could be called and my appeal would not be heard. More than two dozen people were called before me and, although he occasionally complained, he has been trained to sit still and keep quiet in public. My daughter was also fidgety and said he needed to take a poop. I'm not about to let her go into the ladies room in a large public building alone. She waited. NO ACCIDENTS FROM EITHER OF THEM. After my ticket was dismissed and we were heading through the lobby, I took them both into the bathroom. Neither had to go! Anna wouldn't even get up on the stool and try to go after I lined the seat for her. Tyler also didn't want to enter the stall to go. As I see it, the teacher over-reacted to a group of five students who could have waited a few minutes. What are we teaching our kids if we instantaneously grant them everything they say they want? I can't believe what I know to be true about Tyler and Anna is also true of so many other kids. THEY CAN READ A SITUATION PRETTY WELL AND WILL TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!

Whatever the answer, one thing has been pointed out that is certain: No matter what decision the teacher made, he would be screwed. That's the real problem.

_______
PooperGal
"Searching for the Origin of the Feces"

Chances are the rim of the trash can was a lot more sanitary than many of the restroom seats I had to use when I was in school. For the girls, at least, there was one less worry instead of deciding to sit on the old, dirty black toilet seats that haunted many of us.

It might have been 20 years ago when I was in the 5th grade, but Anonymous Coward seems to have a hang-up with being "haunted by the old, dirty black toilet seats". I sat down for a couple of #ls and a #2 most every day in elementary, middle and high school and never really worried about germs, diseases, etc. I don't recall being sick more than a few days with measles, etc. and to this day I have not been diagnosed with any horrendous affliction. What is upsetting and threatening to cleanliness, however, are the number of girls who pee over the toilets without sitting down but who leave urine--and according to my middle school daughter--large amounts of it on the seat! If everybody would just sit down, wipe, clean up any mess made, and wash their hands, there would be a lot less to talk about on sites like this! On the other hand, the problem rests with neurotic parents who overreact and cause problems for teachers who have done the exact same thing! Toiletsm shitting and peeing can't have changed that much in 20 years!

Nanci: Just because you were incorrectly taught by your parents--actually probably not taught good hygiene--doesn't mean that you know more than myself, a mother of four girls, ages 5-19. They have been taught never to sit on or touch a public toilet. When my husband is out with our youngest, he takes her in with him and makes sure she sits on a covered seat! It must makes good sense and I feel adds to the self-esteem of children. My 12-year-old has started middle school and has asked why some girls pee standing up and why some piss sitting down. When she sees someone sitting directly on a public toilet, she thinks it's gross. She is also well-disciplined in case of a situation like the intruder-drill. That was part of the training for all our children. When out in public there's nothing wrong with waiting for a few minutes until we come to a cleaner, safer bathroom. I feel that such training and discipline will enable my children to withstand such awkward situations that mmay confront them in the past. Waiting needs to be emphasize more, and if it was, we wouldn't have the teacher on leave and in the middle of a controversy.

"When she sees someone sitting directly on a public toilet, she thinks it's gross."

Why is your 12-year-old watching people pee?

I'm certain anonymous coward above GottaGoGirl is
A) living in a dimension where time works dislinearly from ours here on earth as exemplified by this comment: "I feel that such training and discipline will enable my children to withstand such awkward situations that may confront them in the past."

OR B) she is CEP's mommy and she is in a real tizzy because this is about Discipline, Discipline, Discipline!

When ya gotta go ya gotta go and "no" isn't going to stop it. I'm old enough to understand, and, more important, old enough to know that when it's a coming nothing is going to stop it. Especially not the word "no." It sounds too much like "go."

_______
Number One . . . I order you to take a number two.

GottaGoGirl obviously hasn't been around school restrooms, especially in middle schools. My daughter,who is 11, just hates using the bathrooms on the 6th grade wing of her school. While the stalls have privacy doors, they do not (because of vandalism) latch. Doors have been opened on her numerous times--once so hard it bruised her left knee as she sat on the toilet. Secondly, she said she finds it embarrasing that girls use the space between the door and the stall as a crack to look through. She has seen eyes peering in at her sometimes and more than once students have made skide remarks about peeing their pants while they wait in line for her stall. One girl even called her a f****** bird
because she puts toilet paper over the sides and front of the seat before sitting down because this girl was afraid that Nicole would take too much time and that their wouldn't be enough time for the others to relieve themselves before the passing period bell rang. Those who think there's privacy in 5th & 6th grade bathrooms have a lot of surprises coming! For example, all stalls in the boys' restrooms have no doors and my son Chad generally waits until the far stall opens so that fewer boys will see him when he has his bowel movements. Although it's reportedly better at the high school building, I'm told there are still some privacy issues in addition to the generally unkempt bathrooms.

GottaGoGirl asks why the 12-year-old is watching people pee. She must have forgotten what it is like to be insecure or unsure of yourself, have others pushing on the door while others are looking in on you while you push desperately to release your shit so that you can wipe fast and get the hell out of the stall and out of the view of the eyes you see peaking in on you. In my middle school many of us girls try to hold it until after school when there is less traffic and more privacy in the restrooms. I've been on the stool at the end of a passing period only to have a teacher come in and bang on the doors of the stalls being used and yelling at us to get to class. I don't get written up for a trady to fourth hour because I tell my teacher the truth and he believes me. It's so upsetting to me and my friends that there are so many rude people out there at school. I've concluded that using the bathroom really sucks. What would GottaGoGirl do if she was in our situation?

Well, I for one told the truth about going to the bathroom. To hell with what other kids think! It's shit! They do it to and they should be reminded of such. You might try this with more of your teachers.

Of course, if your teachers are like mine in the 9th grade, this may not work. My teachers used to actually kick in the doors of the stalls because they were convinced we were doing drugs in the bathroom. It never occurred to the stupid bimbos that kicking in a stall door is likely to break a kid's nose or hand. If they are like this, you might remind them that such an accident with a stall door could be construed as abuse, and that you WILL report the assholes.

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If a man farts and no one's around, does he make a sound?

AC--you've got it right. I've also found the problem exists in high school. Although there are lines of at least a dozen stalls in the girls bathroom, the space between the stalls and doors is at least a 1/4 inch. The longer I'm on the stool, the more frequent the eyeballs I see. My mom says I should keep my panties and jeans at stool level which I do but I still feel my privacy is being invaded. And yet, both teachers and our security guards come in on a pretty regular basis and seek to clear the place out. Today, I was finishing my morning shit and was just reaching for the toilet paper (which I neglected to check before sitting down) and I found there was none. While I was debating what to do, my PE teacher came in and started a countdown from 20 to get me and a couple of the other girls "moving". I quickly got up, flushed and then went to the other bathroom at the end of 3rd floor in order to find toilet paper and do my wiping. Not before I had already accumulated a few skidmarks in my new underware. By the time I got to my IT class I was seven minutes late and had to take a tardy check. Like AC, I hate the loss of privacy at school this year and the attitude of some of the teachers and administrators. My friend Nicole was on the stool peeing and a teacher stood up on the stool next to her stall, looked over onto hers to see is she was smoking or just killing time. She was so bummed out by the incident that she didn't even try using the bathroom for several days. Something needs to be done about our loss of privacy which seems to get worse as we mature in our school system. What do you suggest?

Publicize the fact that the gym teacher counts down from 20. Write a letter to your school paper about it. Count down every time you see that teacher when she or he's next to another teacher. If they ask what you're doing, tell them. Catch this teacher in the bathroom and get a few of your friends to count down loudly and then run like hell.

Email me by clicking on my name and hitting "contact this person" with your school's information (I can find the person on the directory), and I'll send the teacher a letter from here in Washington asking them why they do this, with a copy going to the principal. It'll be fun.

Lastly, call the newspaper and ask them if they want a story about it. Get some of your friends to go in with you. You'd be surprised at how quickly the media grabs onto "student privacy rights" violations these days. Put a voyeur slant on it, and I bet you that you get results.

I've had some Halloween candy and feel peppy.

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.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

Sometimes in life you give a shit, sometimes you take a shit. And sometimes shit just happens to you. In this case the teacher was pretty much hosed. No decision was going to make everyone happy. Some decisions aren't going to make anyone happy. And Caron sounded like she was happy to bitch about everything. I would suggest putting her in a similar situation (her being the teacher) and see what she comes up with. Its harder to criticize when you have been in someone else's shoes.

I just can't wait to get out of high school and go on to college. The privacy issue in the girls bathrooms has gotten worse. My sophomore year I had a teacher (I never knew who she was) do something I felt was more violating than the toilet stool stander that Freshman described. She came by several stalls which were occupied and with what I think was a kitchen knife flicked up the door latch and quickly looked in on us. Yes, I was constipated and had been on the stool for about 10 minutes, but I think it was a violation of my privacy even though she looked in on me for about two seconds before moving on to the next stall. True, I was using the facilities about three minutes into the new class period but I felt my BM coming and by getting up, going to art class and coming back later, I just didn't want to risk my one chance to go because it had been about four days since I produced. Mari, my best friend, said she has had the door opened on her too but she doesn't think we have a case because she learned in Civics class about a Hazelwood case that gives administrators and teachers lots of power as long as it's based on an educational purpose. Although I was worried that I would be called to the office for a detention since I didn't have a hall pass, I wasn't called in. However, I do feel violated and have a hard time concentrating on producing in the bathroom at school when I wonder if I'll have the stall door opened on me again. My sister who goes to State said college is a lot better and sometimes students like me will position themselves on the toilet for a half hour or longer and pass the time studying. She says it works great for her. It would sure work better for me!

I appalled by Francene's story. School administrators that promote teachers flicking open stall doors suck big time. It happend to me once at school. I had just finished my shit when I saw the eyes of a math teacher peek in an me. I know there was smoke in my stall probably from the previous girl, but she peered in on me for the longest time until I got pissed, got up off the toilet and planted my ass directly against the door crack. She was so grossed out by it that I don't think she's going to harass me again.

I now suggest to all of you that are still in grade and high school to start taking your cell phones to the bathroom, and if you have a camera phone, snap a picture of the peeping eye.

It would be a nice thing for the PTA to explain at their next meeting.

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.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

I'm in my second year as a student council member at my high school. There is so much vandalism of both the girls and boys toilets at my school that the administration has taken several steps to stop it. First, after getting permission from a teacher to go to the bathroom (it's sometimes hard and you have to be ready for some scarcasm--especially from the male teachers!) we have to sign a standardized list on a clipboard, log in the time we are leaving and record the time we return. Once in the bathroom, you can expect to be surprised by teachers walking through and especially our dean of girls who is very nosey and demanding. Once last month I was just exiting the stall when she decided to check up on me and how I had left the stall. There was some water on the seat (she thought it was pee and made me come back and wipe it off and there's no way it was because I would not have sat in someone else's pee) which probably was thrown up from the flushing cycle and a couple of strips of toilet paper on the floor which were there before me and she also made me pick them up. "Everyone must do their part," she said. A couple stalls down a girl used the toilet and then discovered there was no toilet paper and Dr. ***** got her some from the stall I had used but made a condes cending remark to her. SHE MADE A MISTAKE, SHE DIDN'T NEED A PUTDOWN! Another one of my friends was in a stall talking to her best friend in an adjacent stall and was told by a teacher to cut the chat and vacate the stall. She ended up getting a pass from her teacher the next hour and returned to do what was intended to the first time! I also know we have a couple of English teacher that use the restroom logs against students. For example, they are allowed only three trips and 15 minutes a semester in the bathroom. Anything more than that means they have to make up the time in detention. Once last week, I forgot to go a home and was hurting to shit when I entered the school. The first two girls rooms I tried we still locked and I barely made it to the third (which was way upstairs)without having an accident. Before first hour class, I asked a janitor why the doors were not open earlier and he said we need to learn to go at home before coming to school and expecting the school to provide us with everything. He's about 65 and may that's the way he was treated back in the 50s, but that still doesn't make it right. The situation seems to be getting worse. I don't think it's fair.

I think his solution was gennius and should be included in the handbook for the drill. Though I do suppose he should have called the principal and gotten permission to proceed first.

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Recycle! Reduce! Reuse!
You can close the loop!
You can eat your poop!

i really think u did the rite thing.
i mean, wut would a teacher do if u were in that situation.
caron is really dumb.

I think that class got in tuch with everyone in there class. But if you have to shit you have to shit

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If you have to shit you shit. But if you are not close to a shiter shit by a tree but if there is not a tree go in a bag and if there is no bag shit your pants

Mr. Frandino did the right thing. He's the only teacher at that school with any kind of common sense and balls. In a real situation, in more ways than this, he's an ideal man to have around. He taught me in 5th grade, and I'm pretty sure he's one of the best teachers i've ever had. Well Played, Phil, Well Played.

this story has gone cold, nevertheless, I make justice to my reputation from other places as digger:

The teacher did in my eyes (19 year old Uni freshman) exactly the right thing, I would have done exactly the same.

Reasons:

1. these intruder drills may be short, but depending on the schools administration they could last as much as 3 (in words THREE) hours, I will not mention the name of the school where I experienced such a duration for obvious reasons, but I can make the point that I was in a senior student position.

2. It is all very well saying "oh, well you should have gone during break, now you'll just have to grin & bear it" and you very well can get away with it with older students, but certainly NOT 5th graders. Besides it is always easy said, but it will never happen because you should go to the loo when you need to, not because you're told to. And so also work the minds of kids they will go when they have to, not because it is break.

3. He had very little choice, if any one of those reading has ever taken care of smaller kids (siblings, daytrips as a volunteer etc.)you will know that once they have focused on needing the loo, there is NO WAY that you can distract them, they will not allow it.

4.
So let's take the moral high ground, if had rung the principal, what should he have told hi
m/her to get the point across yet without ruining his dignity, Imagine the next staff meeting, it would come out and he would be the joke of the staff/faculty for the rest of the semester.

5.
Let's take the point of Caron Weldon because she would bare down on the school no matter what, why? Because she is a yuppy hippocrite and chronically inconsistent!!!! If he hadn't allowed them and distracted them she would have made a run-down of the principal how staff denied her son to use the loo, hence suing the school etc. etc. she bore down on them anyway, which just proves my point.

6. Ok, the way in which it was dealt with may not have been ideal but he made the best of the situation he could, and in someway it will have been a productive lesson for the class after all, as GGG ably elaborates: "There was an obvious problem, and they all worked together to come up with an appropriate solution. THEY HELPED EACH OTHER!"

Based on this, I suggest Mr Frandino to be acquitted and commended for using his creativity in dealing with an obvious emergency.

But sadly, we know it's not going to happen, why? Because the society is hypocritical and will not allow for these
A true pity!
S.