poopreport : BMnewswire :


JOAP drip 3

A future for scavengers: what happens to those who only know shit?

Posted 10.19.2007 by Bunga Din
A recent story from the Khaleej Times tells us that the Supreme Court in India has stepped up efforts to eliminate the practice of manual extraction and disposal of "night soil" by people of India's lowest caste. India's Sulabh International (yes, the very organization Dave visited in August) estimates the government's figure of 800,000 people employed in excavating poop from dry latrines is off by about 200,000. One million Indians make their livings removing other people's waste -- that is, digging it out of a pit, putting it in a tin, and carrying that tin on their head to the local dump dump.

While a law has been on the books since 1993 outlawing this practice, enforcement the ban and finding alternatives have not gone smoothly -- even though $120 million has been spent on the problem over the last ten years. This time, lawmakers hope regional governments will come up with a plan to address this issue and to set a timetable for eliminating the practice -- and provide training programs for these low caste members whose only skill is digging feces out of cesspools.

That sounds great. But Sulabh chairman Dr. Bindeshar Pathak (see him with Dave here) didn't seem to optimistic. "These rulings come and go but nothing much seems to change. The judges should decide how to penalize the governments where this still happens. That might concentrate their minds a bit more."

While I applaud trying to fix this, the sheer number of people involved in the practice -- and the lack of plumbing and wealth in the areas this goes on -- leads me to believe little progress will be made. Just think of how difficult it is for our own society to find jobs when an auto plant closes or a large employer bankrupts. In India's situation, they are dealing with ONE MILLION of the third world's poorest and least educated people who are already shunned by the rest of society. For them, life really is shit.

Show some poop support, or make a poop retort.
Darrow J. (not verified) -- 10.19.2007

This site a found out about after watching the television show "MANSWERS", thank you having this site very informative.

DungDaddy (1460) -- 10.19.2007

It seems like this could be banned a hundred times without effect. Until the plumbing infrastructure is made effective, I don't see how this can stop.

Good report, Bunga.

larfus (not verified) -- 10.21.2007

heres a short video of the practice. The video is SFW but the site if you go wandering through it might not be.

Sewer Cleaner at Work

daphne (4405) -- 10.21.2007

Good article, Bunga, and I'm apt to agree with you about change. This Dr. Pathak, though, is determined and has a good start. Let's hope we're wrong.


_______
.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

Deja Poo (999) -- 10.22.2007

Yet another place where we shouldn't be poking our noses. Dalits render a valuable and economical service for their nation. If people find that they can earn a living by carrying shit in cans from the local crappers to the dump, then more power to them.

We have the same thing going on here, it's just a bit more technologically advanced. Somebody has to deal with port-a-potties. Somebody has to clean up the cages at the zoo. People even make a living removing dog crap from backyards. The only difference is that we give them rubber gloves and shovels. That, and a regular paycheck.

This is also an expression of culture and religion that has been going on for generations. These people may not only be packing poop on their head but they're also warding off Shiva the Destroyer. This is as much about sanitation as it is about maintaining the order of the universe. And without these shit-toting Dalits, who knows what kind of mischief or misery Shiva or Vishnu or Brahma may bring. Most of us (but not me) has to worry about only one mischievous and capricious gawd. They have a whole pantheon of them.

Besides, if you take away their ability to earn a living there, they'll probably just want to come here. Let me ask you this: do you want somebody demanding that you give them access to your bog at night so that they can worship their gawd? I can see it now: "Honey, can you call the police, please? The Chowdhury's are digging up our cesspool again."
_______
Yo quiero Taco Bell.

Dave (11977) -- 10.22.2007

Larfus -- that video is incredibly illustrative. Thanks.

Deja Poo:

If people find that they can earn a living by carrying shit in cans from the local crappers to the dump, then more power to them.

They have no choice, actually. Because of their association with shit, they are considered taboo and thus not given any other options in life. You can't train for another job because no one will come close enough to a Dalit to teach them.

The only difference is that we give them rubber gloves and shovels. That, and a regular paycheck.

That, and we allow them to still live in the same neighborhoods, and eat at the same restaurants, and pray in the same churches, and walk on the same sidewalks, and ride in the same buses, and attend the same schools, and learn the same subjects.

In India, some untouchables are forced to drag a broom behind them as the walk, so as to clean up the contamination other people believe is left by their shadows. I saw that with my own eyes.

Indian society won't accept anyone who touches filth. The solution is the eliminate the need for them to touch filth at all -- Dr. Pathak has told me that when Dalits are given training in other vocations, they are accepted into society. The taboo only holds for those who are actively scavenging shit. Once scavenging is eliminated, these people can live normal lives.

. This is as much about sanitation as it is about maintaining the order of the universe.

No one is advocating a lesser level of sanitation. Sulabh, for one, has toilet designs that promote composting so that no one needs to empty the cesspool. This isn't a ban on sanitation, it's a ban on archaic methods. And I suspect that when children AREN'T forced to descend into a running sewer to poke at a clog with a bamboo pole (see Larfus' video), things will be a little more sanitary than they are right now.

Deja Poo (999) -- 10.22.2007

"They have no choice, actually."

Of course they have a choice. To say that they have no choice denies the concept of free will. The Dalit can refuse to put the shit can on top of their head just as surely as you or I can.

---

"Because of their association with shit, they are considered taboo and thus not given any other options in life."

"Once scavenging is eliminated, these people can live normal lives."

Which is it, Dave? Do they have no options or are there options that allow them to lead normal lives?

-----

"...because no one will come close enough to a Dalit to teach them."

"...when Dalits are given training in other vocations..."

Which way is it, again, Dave? Do some people teach Dalits or will nobody have anything to do with them?

-----

"In India, some untouchables are forced to drag a broom behind them as the walk..."

In American, some Janitors are forced to push a broom in front of them as they walk, although it's mostly vacuum cleaners nowadays. Most of these people feel they don't have too many options in life either.

-----

"That, and we allow them to still live in the same neighborhoods..."

That's because WE are Americans and live in America. THEY are Indians and live in India. They have a way of life, just as we do. And to imply that their way of life is somehow lowlier and more savage than our own and, therefore, we must civilize them while exploiting their natural resources and cheap labor is, well, Colonial.

-----

"And I suspect that when children AREN'T forced to descend into a running sewer to poke at a clog with a bamboo pole..."

Well, somebody's got to do it. Maybe the daughter-in-law could do it, when she isn't busy trying to scrounge together additional dowry payments for her torch-bearing mother-in-law. Or they could send their excess male population since the Indians seem to be prone to aborting their female children simply because they're female.

"...things will be a little more sanitary than they are right now."

A couple million flush toilets aren't going to fix India's sanitation problems. Only time and a sensible population policy is going to crack that nut.

-----

Let's not dance around the main issue. India's major problem isn't gawd, jobs, social mores or indoor plumbing. India's major problem is Indians. That is, there are far too many of them. Everybody knows this, including the Indians. They have a population that is just a little less than 4 times our own all living in a land mass less than 1/3 our ours with significantly less arable land and water resources. And still they continue to punch out little Punjabi's faster than old-age, disease, malnutrition and emigration can take them. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that they aren't already up to their ears in shit.

Look, what I'm saying is that nature has a way of taking care of over-population problems whether were talking about deer or Dalits: plague, pestulence, famine. In the case of humans, you can add war, immigration and complex societies to the list. Maybe this is just part of man's or nature's or gawd's way of taking care of a HUGE problem that everybody realizes is bigger than any mountain of shit that you or I can imagine. Equal rights for Dalits isn't going to solve this problem. At best, it just puts off the day of reckoning.

Okay. I'm going to eat crow for this. Call me a closet bigot, if you want. Let the flaming begin.

Hey, CEP! Do you need some company? I think that I've just been outed.
_______
Yo quiero Taco Bell.

Dave (11977) -- 10.22.2007

Which is it, Dave? Do they have no options or are there options that allow them to lead normal lives?

Which way is it, again, Dave? Do some people teach Dalits or will nobody have anything to do with them?

While they are scavenging, they are shunned. Once they stop scavenging, they aren't. Sulabh provides free vocational training to the people whom their composting toilets put out of business.

Indian society is obviously more complex than a paragraph or two can grasp. Of course not everyone shuns the untouchables -- organizations like Sulabh embrace them. I'm making generalizations based on how I understand things to be. Which I believe is more informed than some, but not nearly as informed it could be.

And to imply that their way of life is somehow lowlier and more savage than our own and, therefore, we must civilize them while exploiting their natural resources and cheap labor is, well, Colonial.

This article is about actions and policies by the Indian government and Indian NGOs. What colonialism are you referring to?

Mary Queen of Scats (389) -- 10.23.2007

My initial impression was totally in line with DD's. You can't say you don't want people cleaning up human waste if you don't address the problem of the plumbing infrastructure (or lack thereof).

As said in Utopia...the government shall first make thieves and then punish them.

_______
Man who stand on toilet seat is high on pot.

Deja Poo (999) -- 11.05.2007

This is a interesting watch, and very consistent with Dave's comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBxy1R0jitM

_______
Yo quiero Taco Bell.

Post new comment



Prove you're not a spambot: what bodily function is this site about? Four letters, begins with p...

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.

*

  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd> <br>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
20,000 character limit / Flood control: 60 seconds between comments and no more than 10 comments per hour

joap plain



About PoopReport | Advertise! | The PoopReport Press Room | Report Your Poop | Contact Dave
Copyright 2000-2009 by PoopReport.com. All content is meant to entertain, not offend. Hope you enjoyed it.