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ShitBegone: An Interview With Jed Ela

Posted 08.12.2002 by Dave (11917)
Editor's Note: As most of you surely know, ShitBegone Brand Toilet Paper is creating a huge buzz in two normally disparate worlds: art and PoopReporting. ShitBegone is art masquarading as commerce, and is succeeding in both worlds. (Check out our review of ShitBegone in PoopReport's Survey of Toilet Paper Brands.)

I'm very pleased that Jed Ela, creator of ShitBegone, took some time to answer our questions about his success, his product's appeal, the future of toilet paper branding, and the meaning of art.


1) How did ShitBegone come about?

A friend of mine came up with the name in college -- actually, I think maybe his brother came up with it -- how funny it would be, if there was a brand of toilet paper called ShitBegone.

Jed Ela, founder of ShitBegone.

I made the first roll a couple years later. I had been thinking about readymades and commodity-art. The first readymades were shocking, but now a century later readymades are just another style. It's a normal way to make art -- to point at something or make a reference -- you can paint it or take a photo of it, but you can also just bring it into the gallery and call it art. That transformation is now a routine part of the economy, another way of creating value.

I was thinking that the opposite hadn't happened much: the readymade flowing back out of the gallery, retaking its place as an ordinary thing. The readymade is about isolating the commodity, freezing it in time. I didn't want that. I wanted a normal, everyday flow -- what logistics calls the "commodity stream."

In 1999 I did some work called "unfinished business" where I would buy things at the store, show them as art, and then go back to the store and just put them back on the shelf. The object was not for sale while in my posession, and I didn't sign it or do anything to it. Just put it back, "catch and release."

Around that time I made the first few rolls of ShitBegone -- I remembered the joke and made a few rolls as a gift for my friend. It didn't take long to realize this was much more than a joke -- it was a product that people would buy, and if it was cheap and plentiful, they would use it too. So I decided to run with it, show a whole truckload and see what would happen.


2) Where do you have it made? Are there many resources for producing "microbrew" toilet paper, so to speak?

I got it from a converting plant in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Actually, it was extremely difficult to find somebody to do it -- there are basically no resources at all for "microbrew" toilet paper. Until you understand the technology and the industry a little bit, you don't even know who to call -- this is an industry with very large players who mostly know each other and deal with each other, and don't have any infrastructure for dealing with new customers in a non-traditional way. In the world of toilet paper, one truckload is not a lot. I actually figured out the other day that if I sell one truckload of TP a year then my U.S. market share is about .0002% -- two ten-thousandths of one percent.


3) Functionally, is ShitBegone any different than any other toilet paper?

In the past I've claimed various features as superior, the way other brands do -- but I found with a name like ShitBegone I can't do that without coming off as kind of hokey, kind of overly ironic. The point isn't to make fun of everyone else, it's just to sell something that is what it is. The paper is soft, it's pretty strong, it's lightly embossed (what many companies call "quilted", which is a silly word). There are a lot of different kinds of TP and SBG is pretty good stuff, within that range. But it's not like it has magic properties. It's a piece of tissue that you clean yourself off with.


4) How would you describe the response to ShitBegone?

It's been very good -- people love the idea, and they love to tell their friends about it. The trick is getting people over their initial disbelief and their assumption of scarcity. People see a product that's fun and refreshing and different and they assume, first, it just can't be real; and if it is, then it must be collectible, it's rare, it's art, etc. Which is fine but in the end it's just toilet paper, you can always use it and buy another roll -- I consider this a 20-year project at least, so the brand is not going anywhere and the price is not so different from any other T.P.


5) Compare ShitBegone to "White Cloud," "Angel Soft" and "Charmin." The latter three disguise their true nature in brand images of clouds and cotton balls and teddy bears, whereas ShitBegone is quite upfront about its purpose. Why do you think people respond to such a straight-talking brand?

Enough ShitBegone to last a year.. or two months, if you eat at Taco Bell a lot.

I think Americans in general have a very deep respect for the "no bull" attitude. That's how we market our trucks and our cigarettes and it works great for those products. But when it comes to body-related things, that attitude comes up against some very deep, old taboos. ShitBegone takes the "no bull" attitude and the body taboos and makes them face off, and what you get is cognitive dissonance -- which according to my freshman psych text is the first ingredient of humor. 6) Do you think your success will start a trend in "honest" branding, in which the marketer sells the product based on its function, and not a contrived image?

I think it already has. Kimberly-Clark, one of the largest TP makers, has a new Web site in which every page features a different picture of somebody's butt. They have section titles like "Potty Fun" and "The Washroom Post." The whole thing is pretty lame really, but it shows how much the general attitude is starting to change. I think in 20 years, you'll see 90% of TP being sold under names that are closer to "ShitBegone" than "Angel Soft."


7) ShitBegone is art. You conceived it as an art installation in 1999, and the act of selling it is a kind of performance. Yet, your intentions aside, you are making and selling a product. You market something that appeals to a niche. To me, that sounds like capitalism. If you consider ShitBegone art, how do you differentiate it from what Proctor and Gamble does?

Art is a category within capitalism, and like any large category its borders are fuzzy. Look at any well-known artist today (or ever) and you will see a company, an economy of suppliers, assistants, dealers, lawyers, accountants, and customers. Historically the "art" economy has been about marketing expensive craft objects to wealthy collectors, and it still is mostly about that. But conceptually at least, that categorization has been under assault for a century by the avant-gardes-- which have been pretty unified in seeing that definition of art as anti-egalitarian and anti-democratic.

One result is that now we have another, parallel way of categorizing art -- not by what it is, but by what it does. Now art is not (just) a craft; now it's anything that makes us think, that moves society and advances culture. I just read an article that called art "one of several systems for the production of knowledge," which sums it up pretty well.

Now I'm not denying that Proctor and Gamble also produces knowledge -- through advertising, through industrial white papers, company memos, etc. -- but that is not the purpose of what they do, it's just a by-product. They aren't efficient at producing knowledge, they're efficient at producing toilet paper. Me, I'm the other way around; I sell one truckload of paper, and I've probably got half the press their company has for a hundred thousand trucks. Of course, I want to be them -- I'd rather it was the other way around, their company is what I want ShitBegone to be. At least, part of me wants that, and so somewhat arbitrarily, I've made it the premise of the ShitBegone project. And you can say what you want about that, I really don't know the answer.

It's a peculiar thing, it's very ambitious, but it's also the most mundane aspiration in the world -- who doesn't want to have a giant, successful company and sell oodles of stuff and make money at it? But in the end I think it still comes down to the knowledge thing -- even if I do get there, I will have produced this interview on the way. For that matter, I'll have produced it even if ShitBegone flops. Which is good, because in the end it's been a lot more interesting to write this than it would be to work at P&G!

Editor's Note: You can order ShitBegone for yourself at their website.

Che (not verified) -- 08.12.2002

amen, brother! art...capitalism. capitalartism? whatever the word, it will always have a place on the shelf of those novelty stores in the mall where cheap jewelry and dirty fridge magnets are sold. Spencer Gifts comes to mind.

but i have a larger vision: i look forward to the day i see ShitBegone on the shelf of my local grocer, right next to BloodBegone tampons and StinkBegone deodorant.

Che

Jed Ela (not verified) -- 08.12.2002

Hello Che, thanks for taking the time to respond, I just want to emphasize that I share your vision of ShitBegone on every shelf. That's why I started doing this. Which is why I don't sell it in single rolls or little gifty-packs that would end up wildly overpriced. I want people to use the stuff and, without grocery distribution, the best way I can think of is to make them buy a lot at once. Plus, that way you really aren't spending more than you would at the store for your regular lame-ass brand.

Anyway if you *really* want to see it on that store shelf, then there are 2 things you can do: 1) buy some now by mail (you understand capitalism, so I won't bother to explain why that helps-- you'll just have to trust me that we have the same goal, and that I will put every bit of extra scale and efficiency into expanding the brand, not lining my pocket in the short-term). And 2) Who is your local grocer? Are they locally owned or part of a big chain? We don't have much chance with the chains yet, on "profanity" and also just on price... but if it's a smaller operation, find out who the buyer is and let them know about ShitBegone, they just might carry it.

Anyway thanks again for reading the interview, glad you like it and I hope you will take the extra step to support something you like by wiping your ass with it!

Jed

THE DAMNJAP (not verified) -- 08.12.2002

i do agree with the freedom fighter che.

i'm an advertising consultant whose market value is with people who don't have a problem with emotive phrases or words. my own site, damnjap.com is pretty much the antithesis of the BBDO's, JWT's, and whatever letter acronym of advertising agency pride.

whenever i see the opportunity, i pitch a little loaf for jed. and maybe when i get enough time (like now to post to a poopreport website) i will graciously work intensely in providing help to vault ShitBeGone to a worthy level.

i figure enough talented people in different places who buy ShitBeGone can contribute something in appreciation.

thank you again, jed.

Melly (63) -- 08.12.2002

Why don't they make toilet paper for different types of shit..you know, a more absorbent kind for the runs or beer poops, and a plainer lighter kind for solid normal poos that aren't so demanding...hmmm, now that I think about it I doubt anyone is that concerned to be willing to have several different "grades" of poo paper taking up space in thier bathroom.Plus you have to be able to flush the stuff....okay never mind.

Bill Willis (not verified) -- 08.18.2002

Next on the list... "I can't believe it's not ass medication" organic hemmorhoid cream :o)

nichole (not verified) -- 10.01.2002

the name is awful i you should change it

Nichole Sucks (not verified) -- 11.02.2002

Change the name? Did you not get the point of the entire article? Are you daft?

Anyway, along the lines of BloodBegone for tampons, would a douche product be called CuntBeclean?

Latex (not verified) -- 02.06.2003

dude give me @shitbegone.com email addy, please! :)

poopshipdestroyer, a.k.a. M. Cortez (not verified) -- 05.07.2003

I don't know why I didn't read this article earlier.

Damn, where do I start? It's almost too much.

The most fascinating thing to me about this interview is the extent to which it demonstrates what a profoundly economic concept shit is--not to mention art, by contrast. Shit and art: the two are opposing categories in an economy of value, where art names the realm of value unto pricelessness, that material which supposedly exists outside or above market circulation. Shit, on the other hand, is the conceptual category we assign to material excluded from economic exchange because of its valuelessness or worthlessness. Rodolphe al-Khoury refers to shit as "aberrant surplus", and this is exactly what it is: that which not only exceeds economic production, but which also threatens economic production, and hence which must be expelled. Shit is not only useless; it is also dangerous and must be gotten rid or, or at least made invisible and unsmellable.

Enter the TP industry, whose business it is to abet this making-invisible on two levels. The first level, of course, is the ass-wiping level. This would be the material, utilitarian function of TP: TP gets rid of shit. In removing shit from our asses, TP thereby allows us to remove shit from sight and mind (down the drain!). But TP also makes shit invisible on a second, ideological level. This would be where what Dave has called "the advertising of disavowal" comes in: fluffy clouds, teddy bears, etc. TP is thus not merely a material product for the removal of bodily excess; it is also an ideological product that enables not simply the removal of shit, but the *denial* of shit, the attribution of negative value to bodily excess via euphemism and metaphor.

So what's interesting about ShitBeGone is that does not attempt to mystify its utility: it is a product for wiping asses, for getting rid of shit. But in demystifying its utility, it also--as art, no less, as rarified or transcendent value--unveils the logic of value production itself, the logic of disavowal, cultural imperatives that mandate the removal of shit from public view, the mystification of the reality of bodily functioning.

What I want to know is: what does it mean that the name for mystification is *bullshit*?

(Dave, I apologize if I mis-paraphrased your concept.)

OK...babbling. I'm gonna go buy some ShitBeGone now.

The Shit Volcano (3816) -- 02.29.2004

I get tired of the "fluffy" toilet paper commercials. I don't know which I hate worse: the bears pooping by the tree or the sewing circle girls.

Russell (not verified) -- 04.19.2004

Thought you guys might be interested in my blog (www.mobhappy.com) that says:

Boing Boing reports what I thought might have been an April Fool at first, but apparently not.

ShitBeGone is a loo roll brand:

"Welcome to the ShitBegone family. ShitBegone toilet paper is a quality product that exemplifies your attitude and approach to life.

ShitBegone is intended for your daily use. With ShitBegone's low prices and convenient online ordering, it's easy to make ShitBegone your brand."

*Hope you're not reading this at mealtimes* warning!

This actually follows a proud history of graphic loo paper stunts. I remember talking to one of the sales people who first sold soft loo rolls into the UK in the sixties (fifties?). By the way, will someone stop me if I start sounding like Alistair Cooke?

Anyway, way back then, loo rolls were sold in old fashioned chemists (apparently) - not grocers (this was pre-supermarket days). And all the counters in them days were marble. When they started to show their wares to the various chemists, there was a high degree of scepticism that the stuff would err...make the Shit Be Gone, as hitherto, they'd used the hard stuff.

So what they did was walk into the chemist and squirt a tube of Coleman's mustard onto the counter. Then they'd give the chemist a roll of Bronco (or the hard stuff) and invite him to clear it up. Of course, all it did (sorry about this) was smear it all over the place. They could then hand over the new, soft stuff to do the business and of course, we've never looked back.

PooBeeDooBeeDoooo (not verified) -- 08.19.2004

First, I must congratulate Jed on not only a fine concept, but a very thought provoking interview.

Beyond the blurry line between art and full-scale crapitalism and the way the mainstream TP industry has consistently used denial of the true function of their product as a format for their advertising, we have the one solid, practical or functional concept which they have chosen to acknowledge. That is the idea of softness or smoothness.

Of the major brands that do extensive consumer advertising, all make use of imagery or outright claims of softness. Yet when I’m done defecating, I want a poop-removal tool which will do several things. First, it should remove the fecal material quickly and efficiently with a minimum number of wipes. Secondary to that, it should not be abrasive to my anus. And third, it should be constructed so that it breaks down very rapidly once wet so that it won’t require me to rent a snake and spend about four hours rooting the sensitive sewer line which connects my domicile with the sanitary sewer system of my fair city.

Softness does not equate to non-abrasiveness. And smoothness (as is often accomplished when a TP company smashes their product between embossing rollers) is actually a bad feature because a smooth or polished surface (as many of the “high-end” TP brands feature) is the opposite of what we want when trying to remove feces from our butts. As with the old fashioned “hard” paper or using the pages of the Sears catalog, the polished or smooth surface just smears things around. It doesn’t grab and hold the poop.

So we’ve got two opposing criteria here. On the one hand, a smooth or polished surface on the TP will be less abrasive, but on the other hand, to clean quickly and easily, the TP needs to have some “tooth” – i.e. surface roughness or texture into which the poop can be collected during a wipe. Pillows or quilts don’t work because they are too large to create useable tooth.

So the manufacturers need to grasp the subtle difference between “smooth” and “non-abrasive”. You can have a non-abrasive product which is not smooth. Think of wiping your ass with a nice terrycloth towel. Now that’d get the job done quickly, with few wipes, and would be very nice on the bum. But then we run up against the third criterion which is that of flushability. I wouldn’t want to be the homeowner in charge of maintaining the sewage line of a household using terrycloth towels!

Now if the major brands were to embrace the whole ShitBeGone concept and face up to the true function of their product, that would allow them to compete on a purely functional level. The advertising could show, using photomicrographs, how their product was soft on a microscopic level (where it counts) and yet had roughness or texture on just the right scale such that it would easily capture and hold the fecal material during a wipe. I can envision a magnified, slow-motion animation much like the old multi-blade shaver commercials which showed a whisker being pulled outward from the face only to be caught by a second blade and pulled farther, only to be then cut off by the third blade. Envision if you will, a nice, rough (yet non abrasive) surface slowly coming into contact with the poop, collecting it into its “tooth” and then pulling it cleanly away from the animated ass.

But because the TP marketers have chosen to perpetuate society’s taboo against actually discussing, on a rational level, anything to do with bodily functions, their product design has suffered. They actually design the TP to be smooth which is not a desired quality, and be quilted which is also not desired because it works with the only thing they’ve been able to bring themselves to advertise as a real product characteristic.

Imagine if polite society demanded that we never discuss or acknowledge how other products actually do their job. Would we see vacuum cleaners being sold on the basis of their color or perhaps their shape or how they smell? That would be just as stupid as not seeing TP companies compete on the basis of their product’s true function.

It’s amazing that in a world where we see people blown up or shot dead every night in living color on our TVs, we are not allowed to be shown how toilet paper actually does its job! It’s appalling that sensitivity to our denial of bodily functions has actually retarded or even reversed product engineering in such a way. It’s truly amazing.

Bravo to ShitBeGone. The first TP company to acknowledge their product’s true function. Perhaps ShitBeGone can help break down society’s barriers and help move us into a brighter future where the Butt Wipe industry can begin to compete on the actual merits of their product’s functionality. Only then will we see technological advances in butt wiping. I look forward to a brighter tomorrow when I’ll be able to wipe my ass with a better product! March on, fellow PoopReporters! Viva La Poopalution!

I’m off to order me some ShitBeGone, dammit!

Jeremy Harris (not verified) -- 04.08.2005

Is your company still in business?

Anonymous Coward (not verified) -- 05.12.2008

hmmmmmm... interestingly enough, this article has made me need to go poo. but now i don't want to use corporate toilet paper.

dammit.

Frigidaire Parts (not verified) -- 11.16.2008

Anyway, not matter what, your site is the best. It is original, unique, it was the first to come out in this 'field' and it has a lot of viewers, subscribers and so on. Keep up he good work!

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