You`re right Wiper it is unusual for most folk who are neither kids nor geriatrics to discuss their bowel movements. At work there are 5 of us in a large office, and since joining PR I started coming in to work and announcing the quality and quantity of my post-breakfast dump, eg: "3 or 4 pounds of floating logs this morning guys, must`ve been that massive stir fry for dinner" and the like.

Now they`ve all taken to letting everyone know what they`ve shat out when they go to take a dump at work. It`s hilarious sometimes. We should all lighten up and discuss our dumps with each other at every opportunity.

Amen thunderbox. I mean everyone poops right? Why not let it be a point of discussion and pride as well. Perhaps then people would respect the non home bathrooms more and people would be more willing to take that dump at work. Let us lose our shamefullness as shitters and unite as shameless shitters.
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The Thunderous Crapper 63 Enjoying home toilet advantage since 2004!

This is deep. I notice that TBW is the deep thinker among us. Deep Shit.

I swear, living with my parents, taking care of them in their "golden" years, has been an eye opener to be sure. I don't think my mother ever exhales, she just farts. Stirs her gruel, farts, takes a step, farts, you get the idea...I've started grading her, and Dad has joined in. We try to figure out key she's in, whether she need to lean right or left for the sharp or flat...its become quite hilarious.

It sounds like the old rule about being old enough to know better or too young to care applies here.

The very young haven't quite yet had the brainwashing about the "pooping is bad and disgusting" factor fully set in.

The elderly simply either don't give a damn, or due to health issues, have no choice but to talk about their bowels.

Everyone else in between, generally has no issues with their bowels, so there is no need to discus them in that manner. Yet, the "inbetweeners" have the foolish and stupid belief drilled into their heads that pooping is gross, evil, and disgusting. And if they talk about pooping to others, the poop god will strike them with a giant falling turd.
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"-55F, a new record low? Nope, thermometer went bad. Looks like -50F still stands"

I really enjoyed your sociological contemplation with this submission!

And I agree with Dung Daddy, 'deep shit'
Nicely done. A very well narrated "master-piece-of-shit".

I have a little bit to add to the "main stream" portion of life part concerning ingrained shamefulness: These are all years that we are striving to be attractive or appealing to those around us-- for example, schoolmates that talk and taunt, co-workers that may judge and especially in the budding (or the trying to remain enticing) of a romantic relationship. In most instances, an incontrovertible case of stinking up the place is not positive for your image. Self consciousness rules, in varying degrees, during these stages of life. Thank god for the unconditional love of good friends and family, ya? (And a community like PR....)

But(t) the young and old are carefree of this trying to impress BS-- and neither is trying to come across as sexy to anyone! This is the same relaxed (and even proud) attitude the animals I've worked for display. This is the refreshing insight The Big Wiper offers us with this article. Good one!

(sorry, long-winded, my virginal post to PR)

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'Hey that sounds pretty nasty, how about a courtesy flush over there?' (AP1)

My dad's farts are just getting longer, looser and funnier sounding as he ages. Its fucking hilarious, when he lets one, we all laugh our asses off!!

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(insert ziggy boogy doog here)

Yep, TBW, these are some profound thoughts about the ages and the stages. We are in the throes of potty training lil' shitwit and frequently discuss poop and all things related to poop wherever we may be. Some people cringe or look away as the topic comes up, but we soldier on, undeterred by their scorn. He's comfortable talking about poop and I don't want to ever change that. In fact, he's the one who changed the lyrics to Rick Derringer's "Rock-n-Roll Hootchie-Koo" to what I use for my signature! (see below....) And at the age of 2! What a musical genius, that kid! Hope he continues to be musical with his butt too! Coming from parents like myself and my husband we have nothing to worry about!

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Rock-n-roll! Poopy-poo!

My lovely, handsome 6 y.o. boy has Autism, which is a developmental disability. Although there are many competing theories about the causes of Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), almost everybody now agrees that it is caused by abnormalities in the brain. Unlike earlier theories, ASD is not caused by poor parenting.

In my son's case, he is non-verbal and lacks social skills. He has weak self-help skills, play skills and imagination. While he is very well physically coordinated, he has no sense of rhythm for music or conversation. It is very difficult for him to concentrate on anything for more than a few seconds, with the exception of his favorite videos. Although he has been urinating in the toilet for 2 years, he has only started defecating in the toilet in the last year or so.

While there is no doubt in my mind that my son has always experienced that need to go (or that plugged up feeling that one gets when suffering from constipation, to which he is prone), he can not communicate this to us. In fact, we really have no idea he has to crap until we literally see his little body quaking from trying to hold it back. That is, he knows that he has to take a dump but he can't communicate that to us and he can't remember or focus on the sequence of events to successfully evacuate his bowels in the toilet. Just like you and I, he doesn't want to crap in his pants or diaper. So, he clamps that little sphincter down as tightly as he can until we carry him to the toilet, undress him and then tell him to push.

Until recently, that is. Now, as he's matured, we've been getting more successes out of him by either our verbal (not physical) intervention or his own ability. He's even trying to wipe his butt. However, we have to give him the toilet paper first.

The interesting part of this is that, he now will also insist (by pushing us) that we leave the bathroom while he poops. It's fine for us to be there while he urinates -- even if he's sitting while peeing -- but not while he poops. At first, I thought that this was just an affectation, but it has continued.

In any case, he's never been shameful about anything. For him, running naked through the house is still a joy. Watching daddy pinch a loaf is not embarassing. Jumping up and down and flapping his hands is a perfectly acceptable expression of excitement. Sitting on the crapper with his pants down around his ankles in plain view of the open front door of our home is nothing extraordinary. Heck, walking out of the bathroom with his pants still around his ankles and then pulling them up in front of the open front door is nothing extraordinary.

On the other hand, my 70 y.o. mother has Alzheimer's, which is a form of Dementia. Alzheimer's strikes 10% of adults age 70 or younger and 90% (I think) of adults age 90 or older. It is caused by the collection of plaques on the cells of the brain that results in the death of those cells. Alzheimer's effects all areas of the brain and is, ultimately, fatal.

For Mom, it's been a very fast progression. In less than a year, she has gone from being able to drive long distances, to being unable to figure out how to start the car. While she can still feed herself, she can no longer cook or even set the table. While she can dress herself, she can't tell whether she should be putting on her night gown or her winter clothes. While she still remembers my name, she can no longer remember on what day she gave birth to me.

As all of this is happening, Mom has become shameless or, perhaps, simply dependent. When we tell her to dress in the mornings, she will immediately start taking off her night clothes. She still is able to defecate and urinate on her own, although recently I found some crap on the bathroom floor recently which I suspect came from her. I suppose that it's not too much longer before we will have to help her with toileting. That might bother her now, but I suspect that, in short order, she won't even care. (In the last 3 months, we have started bathing her because she is unable to effectively clean herself and, quite frankly, she's alright with it.)

In so many respects, she has become like my son: we constantly have to monitor her. The difference is, of course, that while my son is everso slowly gaining skills, she's losing them. One of them certainly has biologically-based abnormalities of the brain, and the other almost certainly does.

In the end, the point I'm trying to make is that, while we attribute our shamefulness and shamelessness to our experiences and our attitudes, it is not entirely about that. A very important piece of this entire thing is physical as well. We may be able to influence our own behavior by sheer brute will, but we can only do so up to a point. Sociability and social awareness are very much physical aspects of the brain. If those aspects of the brain that handle social awareness become diseased (as in the case of my mother) or fail to develop (as in the case of my son), social awareness slackens. And as that physical ability to grasp social awareness diminishes, so do our inhibitions and we become more shameless.

As for us, we cope as best we can. We have our good days and our bad days. And when it all gets to be too much, I think that we might all one day shed our clothes in living room and run naked through the neighborhood shamelessly.

Wow; that could maybe be a whole article, there. Thanks for the insights!

Wow, DejaPoo, I certainly do feel for you. I understand all too well how challenging and frustrating it can be to care for someone you love who is unable to communicate what their needs are. It appears ASD runs rampant in our family (my father and his younger brother have Asperger's and his older brother has classic autism, and his sister's daughters both have Aspergers too). Although my brother and I appear to not have ASD, my brother has ADHD and many of our behaviors we have learned over the years actually came from observing my dad and his family and how they view the world around them. It seems that my father was able to progress to a certain point (afterall he was married to my mom and had 2 kids!) and then he could go no further. In the past few years we have seen the regression taking place in him and his brothers as they age - this is the most frustrating part for me b/c what they used to understand a few years ago seems totally lost on them now. I'm trying not to make this sound like it's all a sad story - it's really not. I've learned so much from my family and their sometimes "kooky" behavior that it really does take a lot to embarass me - and it seems like nothing shakes them the way it does the rest of us. Please never give up hope for your little boy. You will always learn very valuable lessons in life from him that are hard to come by ordinarily.

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Rock-n-roll! Poopy-poo!

For me, this site is never better than when a thread like this one develops around an article that gets to the heart of the (fecal) matter.

Toots N. McCrack: Great handle! And that was an excellent 'virginal' post.

DungDady: Deep thinker, huh? Didn't you know that I posed for Rodin's great work--'The Thinker?'

Serially, though, I truly appreciate the thoughtful quality of the responses here.

Pulling My Pants Down For Peace, Plop and Posterity!

As a "nature vs. nurture" question, there's little doubt in my mind that the seeds of Shamefulness are planted primarily by the family and its attitudes. Kids are not born Shameful, any more than they are born racists or homophobes. Even a child raised in a Shameless atmosphere will inevitably be exposed to regressive fecal philosophy as they begin to interact in ever-widening social circles. Maintaining a consistent and healthy belief system in the face of contrary influences from the larger society can be a lifelong struggle. The gates to Shameful City are always open.

I find it difficult to argue with Fudgepump's post above. Considering that toddlers usually try very hard to please their parents during toilet training, it's the signals they get that may have a lasting impact.

Shamefulness may also occur when parents are impatient and even trot out punishment during this period. Using the toilet then becomes a negative experience, possibly forever.

Pulling My Pants Down For Peace, Plop and Posterity!

The Big Wiper wrote: "Considering that toddlers usually try very hard to please their parents during toilet training..."

Spoken like a man who has never tried to toilet train a toddler! Why do you think there are all those charts, and targets, and reward (read:bribe) systems for potty training?

Because they resist.

I beg to differ with you on that, GGG. My Developmental Psychology teacher mentioned in class that you can't toilet train a child until they have sufficient mental, social and physical development but once that development is in place, they'll learn it easily. He indicated that much of the hassle associated with toilet training is caused by parents that are overly anxious to get their children out of diapers and into underwear. As evidence, he offered that the vast majority of people are toilet-trained, whether they were trained early or trained late.

Interestingly, he indicated that toilet training has less to do with the ability to hold oneself than it has to do with social development. At a minimum, certainly, a child must have sufficient physical control over their bladder. However, most children learn because they are want to be accepted or to please somebody, whether it be care-givers or peers. It's only when that social development isn't present that reward systems like candy, stickers or other preferred items work.

He also indicated that, unless you suspect some kind of developmental issue, the best approach to toilet training is to start when the kid seems ready for it. If the kid doesn't take to it quickly, then drop it and revisit it again in a couple of months. Sooner or later, the child will be toilet-trained. The only question is the amount of stress to be endured by all parties involved.

I've worked in a preschool for the better part of the last decade. I call 'em like I see 'em.