Well done jamesinger for never clearing that shit ridden, addict strewn, whorehouse of an excuse for a toilet.

I've always thought such clean book shoppes would have spotless bathrooms. I guess ignorance really is bliss; I'll be doing my book shopping online so I know (or can atleast tell myself) nobody ventured into a dirty toilet before touching my books.

Thanks for the heads up. O__O; I admire you for even being able to write about such things, let alone experience them.

I wouldn't have messed with all that shit, and other stuff, either. Way to stay strong.

_______
I poop because I am...I am because I poop.

My god. With all the shit you observed, one would think you had worked there for months or even years. But with your me-no-do-grunt-work attitude, it's hard to believe you lasted a week. How long were you there, what city was this in, and how did it all come to an end?

This is such a wild juxtaposition! As a writer, I definitely associate B & N, Borders, Books-A-Million and other upscale book chains with clean facilities--clean coffee shops, reading areas, bathrooms. All the ones I've been in have pretty much been spotless.

I also don't associate these stores with bad neighborhoods. This must have really been a ghetto Barnes & Noble. As I said, I just don't ordinarily associate the two.

I couldn't have lasted fifteen minutes at such a job!

I guess I have lived a sheltered life because I have never seen any of that shit, except pissed on toilet paper. I would love to catch some asshole doing that just because the beating I would give them would be worth cleaning the mess up.

I don't know about this story.

Constant sex, drug use, etc at a bookstore bathroom?

If you worked at a nightclub I could believe this all happening.. but I don't know if I can believe this.

Sorry.

dont give in to the man! 7$ an hour aint worth that

_Well.. Here we have it, Another example of a young american unwilling to work for an honest dollar, and probably one of those who whine about illegal aliens taking jobs. If I had caught you hanging an "out of order sign" and skipping the rest of the day of work, I would have fired you on the spot. ______
owlbeback

Arbeit macht frei.

I once tried to compile a list of trusted public restrooms for the dreaded away from home base shit. Barnes & Nobles was on my list of trusted bathrooms. At least the one in my town. Question, it sounds like there were a lot of homeless people and heroin addicts in or around the area where this store was located. Perhaps not the ideal location to pedal reading material?

_______
You ever take a dump that made you feel like you'd just slept for twelve hours? - Ricky Roma (Al Pacino) in Glengarry Glen Ross

I can vouch for a lot of this. Last semester my work-study job was as a custodian for the campus gym. Brand new facilities (less than a year old) with a very strict enterence policy (must be either a student or alumni, no high school kids . . . . nice), and I would say tht during my time there I have seen nearly every fecal incident that can be seen, including drug use and gay sex.

Isn't that why people have bedrooms?

_______
Number One . . . I order you to take a number two.

A "ghetto Barnes & Noble"? Must be one of your higher-class ghettos.

Yes, the words "ghetto" and "Barnes & Noble" just don't go together. Down here in the Deep South, for instance, you would never find a Starbucks next to a Church's Fried Chicken.

Think about it.

Ironically their self help section should have been a big hit but was probably the least frequented.

_______
You ever take a dump that made you feel like you'd just slept for twelve hours? - Ricky Roma (Al Pacino) in Glengarry Glen Ross

this barnes and noble was at the westside pavillion in Los Angeles but plagued with homeless heroin addicts trying to get a fix AND steal as many books as possible. I do not know why the bathroom was so intense beyond that there but what I do know is that when I tell people the story, whether they work at a food co-op in Santa Barbara or the Barnes and Noble in Santa Monica (which subsequently had its bathroom taken away from the public for this...shit), people can relate, have stories... I think the bathroom is an interesting place when it is semi-private/semi-public and it creates weird dynamics from simple scratch tag type graffiti to people smearing poop on the mirrors. Also, one clarification with the sex thing to add some weight, one of the people who "did it" in the bathroom was a manager there. Also, my story left out many employee bathroom stories of masterbation and secret stashes of porn in unused storage spaces... Last, I think the emplyees were partially to blame in the sense that, B&N forces people to tell the customers corporate slogans, sell Reader's Advantage cards and generally to sell best sellers. They treat a bookstore like a clothing store and everyone there hated their lives including me.

*jamesinger

ps. The self-help section is the #1 section right up there with the Astrology/Mystical section!!!

pps. I told someone this story over the weekend while in Santa Barbara and they told me at the Borders Books there, a man ran down the escallator with 2 logs of poop, one in each hand, smearing them down the rails!!!

10-4 on not wanting to touch a contaminated book, remember that Seinfeld episode where George took the book to the john, and then had to buy it. They wouldn't even give him a refund because it was on the "bathroom list". Funny. But seriously jamesinger, with your "can-do attitude", and ability to "get the job done", I believe that you will travel far in life, just not up. If you accept a job offer, you do what's in the job description... or don't take the job. It's called "work ethic".

Why would homeless people steal books? I mean, sure, they could want to read them, but it's not like the homeless have a lot of storage space.
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Mmmm...Fiber: Nature's Broom!

Work ethic has nothing to do with a corporation or large chain business taking advantage of the fact that mostly younger workers with most likely a weaker backbone will be not willing to argue ridiculous working conditions.

Your description of the boss reminded me of the boss in the restaurant from "Office Space". He was not pleased with Jennifer Aniston's lack of "flair". Like it was him mission in life to make sure that everyone had enough of it. His only mission.

Nothing is wrong with pride. Hysteria, however, not good for the workplace. That's how I always thought of those type of corporate workers, so excited about the next product, eyes shiny with sick anticipation of explaining the newest product to you.

Ugh. (shudder). I feel the need to go outside and wipe my arms and legs off for the metaphysical comfort......

Glad that you didn't clean it up. Really. If any corporation needs that done, they should be hiring a separate worker who knows this is his job. What business really wants the same person who's cleaning up messes like that on the floor working with people and books?

_______
.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

"...corporate workers, so excited about the next product, eyes shiny with sick anticipation of explaining the newest product to you..."

Yeah, that's how it is where I work. You're supposed to get all excited about stuff. "Oooh! Patio fans with misters! Oooh!", or whatever. They try to make us "chase" items (which is their word for "push on customers"). "GGG? What item will you be chasing, today?" I hate that. "I think I'll let the customers decide what they'd like to buy, if that's alright."

I really should have gone to college. Stay in school, kids.

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Mmmm...Fiber: Nature's Broom!

Beg to differ daphne, as far as I can tell, work ethic means a job well done, and done with pride. If you have no intention of doing either one, then get the hell out. Sometimes the less than desireable jobs get passed down the chain of command. If you're the low-man on the totem pole, tough luck, that's the way the world works. If you don't like it, then you have two options: quit, or work your way up to second man on the totem pole. The idea of doing a piss-poor job, for shitty pay, in a shitty environment, is not a very good excuse. Like I said before, if you accept a job offer, do the damn job; the damn job is whatever(within bounds of legality) the boss says it is.

no you see i currently work retail phillip. i have a JOB DESCRIPTION. no where in my job description does it state that i will be required to clean bathrooms, and without the proper tools chemicals and protective equipment cleaning a bathroom is an OSHA issue. and in most retail stores, mine included, the bathroom is the responsibility of the manager, it's cleanliness is included in their own job description, not mine. hence managers tend to try to let the shit literally roll down hill, a few seperate times i have refused to clean the bathrooms or to clean up puke, because i am not paid to nor am i willing to. furthermore, my chain pays a janitor to come in twice a week to clean them, and while that may not be adequate, it is not my problem nor is it my concern. it's very easy to waggle your finger and say "you should do whatever your manager tells you to" but many times managers will bend and break the rules more than their underlings, and are remarkably lazy. this is a situation to know your OSHA rights, know your job description, and know what you can and cannot be told to do by anyone in the company. otherwise whats to stop your manager from bullying you into whatever the hell they want you to do?

So you think that "cleaning the bathroom" if it was mentioned in his job description, merits THAT kind of cleaning? Someone who is also supposed to handle merchandise and deal with people, handle their money and their credit cards?

This has nothing to do with work ethic. It has everything to do with the human meat market. They are totally different. There is a line that you shouldn't have to cross on the job, and from the description of the bathrooms this guy paints, I'd say that line was drawn.

And don't think I am absent on work ethic. I've done some of the dirtiest jobs you can imagine, including the wildlife rehab job I had in Kentucky. I've packed ice cream cones right off an oven that would cause my working area to be 110 degrees on the average. But I knew what I was getting into and was not handling any substance that would contaminate a product anywhere else in the business.
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.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

someone has to stand up for the little guys sometimes

I'm with you on this one, Boss DeCrapper. If you can't do whatever your job is with a sense of pride, then get out ASAP. This has nothing to do with how bad the job is, how ignorant your boss, how despicable the company. It has everything to do with how you view yourself.

I would write up any little pissant who whined, "I'm gonna call OSHA!" when asked to clean the restroom. Send someone to Home Depot and get a waterbed fill kit, a hose, some Draino, a bucket, a toilet snake, a can of Scrubbing Bubbles, and some rubber gloves, if you lack any of these items. Put some Draino down the floor drain, just to be sure, pour a bucket of hot water down after it, snake the friggin' toilet, put the snake on the floor, go get the hose, hook it up to the hot tap. Hose the whole room from top to bottom. Cover the toilets and the snake with Dow chemicals. Hose it all off again.

Then shut the fuck up, pansies. Shit happens. Clean it up.

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Mmmm...Fiber: Nature's Broom!

To be clear, I'm not claiming that jamesinger should have cleaned up these godawful messes, but rather that he should have walked off the job when it became clear that this was part of what was expected of him and that he wasn't willing to do it. Instead, he'd say he'd do it, then sneak off and leave it to some other shmuck.

Why should he have walked off the job? If it was his job to keep bums OUT of the bathroom in the first place, then if he'd been more vigilant, it wouldn't have gotten so bad. If the bathrooms were really THAT bad, then they should have posted a sign that said, "These Facilities Will Be Hosed Down Every Hour On The Hour!" Then for several weeks, someone (perhaps our employee in question) would have to DO it, each and every hour. He could even leave the hose hooked up to one sink as a demonstration (probably have to zip-tie it there, though, so no one would steal it). After a few weeks, word would get around that, dammit, that book store runs everybody outta the john and hoses the whole damn place every stinkin' hour!

I just hate, Hate, HATE whiners who think everything is someone else's problem, and that THEY are above "such things", whatever it may be.

For cryin' out the window, be part of the SOLUTION instead of bitching about it. If someone had taken SOME SORT of initiative to REMEDIATE the problem, then that person would be seen as the hero. Instead, we have a lying coward. Hmmmn.

Rant wrapped.
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Mmmm...Fiber: Nature's Broom!

I think maybe a floral motif vinyl wallpapering and a delicate potpourri along with the musical stylings of Kenny G could have brightened up that washroom. These are the kind of ideas you need to present to management if you want to get ahead.

I have to run to work actually (8am-10pm) with a 5 hour break in the middle?!?!?

BUT I wanted to say 2 things to clarify the discussion.

1. Just to be clear, I knew who I was leaving the poop cleanup work to and it was not one of my fellow disgruntled employees, it was a manager's job. The managers are literally the only people who cared, OR people who wanted to be managers. So, every time I did this I was repremanded for it and I would always reply, "write me up. Fire me. But you are the manager, you are making the dollars needed to clean up shit in the bathroom, I told you before, I don't clean shit for minimum wage." This may be still questionable as a work ethic but it has been my M.O. since I was 15. I learned this fast and it has helped me work my way through college with never bringing my work home (poop or otherwise). However, the person who said, I will go far but not up is exactly correct. I have been fired from close to 20 jobs for this type of resistance and attitude. Nevertheless, when I have worked in my career (teaching), I have only gotten the best marks and done the best job I could possibly do for my students and the college I teach at. The main point, is that, working from high school through college, I have had my share of "office space" type jobs where I was expected to show flair. I have never done this and I never will. However, I have always been honest in that sense. Now that I am doing something I can feel good about, I show tons of flair. For example, today I have on 8 pieces over the required 8 pieces of flair. That is 16 pieces of flair!

2. The people who stole books from B&N commonly sold them to independent booksellers in the area, OR if they were really messed up, they would try to return them. B&N has a hands off policy towards stealing and I would assume people who steal know this. As an employee, I could never accuse someone of stealing or detain them. I was only allowed to say, "can I help you!?!?" or something foreboding. I think an actuary somewhere decided our shrinkage costs did not outweigh legal fees in this sense.

thanks for the comments!!!

*jamesinger

Vinyl wallpaper is waterproof.
_______
Mmmm...Fiber: Nature's Broom!

one last thing...sorry.

Also, another point of contention was there are 5 managers working at a time. I was a shelver. that was my job, put the books away as fast as you can and cashier when they need it. So, the cashier manager was always telling me to help, the shelving/shipping manager was always telling me to shelve faster, the floor manager was always telling me to clean the bathroom when I was just told to do all these other things and the general manager was at the bidding of whoever whined the loudest that everything never worked right. Last, the cafe manager just wanted to hang out and give me some free tea. That was nice.

james singer writes, "For example, today I have on 8 pieces over the required 8 pieces of flair. That is 16 pieces of flair!" That's a hell of a lot of bling to be sporting. You're not prostituting yourself, are you? Or did you finally get into management?

i've re written this comment a few times, but i've decided to both pare and tone it down to a few key points.

first, please don't insult my work ethic.

secondly, osha exists for a reason and can and should be called when you have a disagreement with anyone regarding workplace safety. whether or not you are written up for it, it is meant to reduce the amount of work related illness and injury. while some may run to it as small children run to mommy, i assure you, i don't hide behind osha or anything. if you are willing to take a stand you must also be willing to do it alone.

thirdly, my point is that if i had signed up as a janitor or as a plumber or any of those things i would accept the consequences, do the job and deal with it. being that i have not i will not perform the duties of any of those people. in the same sense i was not hired as a company truck driver, nor do i have a cdl nor will i drive a truck full of freight no matter how much my manager screams. This is an employment at will state and if they choose to fire me, that is their prerogative, but they may find legal action taken against them. no matter where you are employed you should know your rights, and refuse to be trampled by the corporate machine, or some bossy blowhard that thinks the manager badge makes them god.

no matter how much you disagree with me i beleive my points are valid. (is there anyway this can not become a flame war? i really don't want that)

In all cordiality, we disagree, and I can live with that.

I guess since IIIII have to shit in the SAME bathrooms as the filthy public at my work, it's a matter of personal interest that we (each and every one of us, regardless of position) takes turns cleaning the damn toilets. We have seen it ALL (I have a post somewhere about a 3-foot pile of blood-soaked ass-gaskets), but so what? Get a hose and clean it up. WHAT is the big deal?

It's like when I ask my 12-year-old to do the dishes. "I didn't eat off all those dishes." It's just so childish to say "It's not MY job!"
_______
Mmmm...Fiber: Nature's Broom!

Reading James' description of the Barnes and Noble bathroom, the first thing that came to my mind was the "The Worst Toilet In Scotland" scene from Trainspotting.

Coincidentally, the Borders in downtown San Diego no longer has public bathrooms because they were having problems with people doing, and dealing drugs in the bathroom.

Well, I'm getting an education on the state of certain metro chain bookstores. But perhaps I shouldn't be as surprised as I first was when I read this story.

I've been working for many years as a sales rep to the library industry, and libraries in certain large cities have a major problem with the homeless, including all sorts of disgusting stuff going on in their bathrooms.

Access to books, apparently, brings out the worst in certain people.

I agree that if it isn't in your job description, you don't do it. And if you don't have all the tools necessary to make it safe for you (know how to handle needles, safe place to dispose of needles, hazmat suit to deal with possibly infected bodily fluids) you don't do it. If it IS in my job description, but they don't and won't provide me the equipment I need to do it safely, I will tell them why I won't do it, and I won't do it, period, until they get me my safety gear.

B&N's here are usually fairly clean. Powell's Books in Portland is in a slightly shady area of downtown, and though the store itself is always very clean, I've caught people shooting up in ther bathroom. I've told the employees when I encounter this kind of thing, and they call the police to take care of it since emplitees aren't trained to safely deal with drug-addled people with sharp things.

It's been a long time since I was working these sorts of jobs, so things may have changed. But do these starting "positions" now come with written job descriptions? My earliest jobs were described to me basically this way: "you'll do whatever shitty work the boss tells you to do for shitty pay."

Also, I would have thought that the fact that it was the managers' responsibility to see that the restrooms are clean would not mean that it was their job to actually clean them. Managers "manage" by telling non managers, like our own James Singer, to clean the restrooms and not forget to scrub those hands before going out and shelving more books.

Ironically, reading these comments you can guess who the Republicans and Democrats are. I am quite certain that when applying for a job at Barnes & Nobles there is absolutley no expectatation of walking in the bathroom to find drug addicts passed out with needles dangling from their arms and shit, cum and blood smeared all over the place. And I might be crazy (or the book stores in Cali are just completelty fucked) but when the hell did Barnes & Nobles become a safe haven to shoot up crank?!?!

_______
You ever take a dump that made you feel like you'd just slept for twelve hours? - Ricky Roma (Al Pacino) in Glengarry Glen Ross

Hey, Beer Shits, is 'shoot up crank' the latest craze? As in motor oil? Heh. Just messin' witcha!

Beer Shits opines, "Ironically, reading these comments you can guess who the Republicans and Democrats are." I’m not sure why it would be ironical if you could make such a prediction; you’d kind of expect to be able to do so. But I was actually thinking it was interesting, if not ironical, that the take on work ethic is fairly independent of political affliction.

Logjam wrote "But I was actually thinking it was interesting, if not ironical, that the take on work ethic is fairly independent of political affliction." You must be a Democrat. ;)

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You ever take a dump that made you feel like you'd just slept for twelve hours? - Ricky Roma (Al Pacino) in Glengarry Glen Ross

You got me, damn it. Is what tipped you off that I knew what irony meant?

jamesinger: I myself would have walked out the first time they asked me to clean that filth up. I know everyone needs to work, and houseing and food isnt free. I'd rather taken my degree and done ditch digging or anything but service ever again after that. What a horror of a job duty.

What is it with people and defiling bookstore restrooms?!?! I just don't get it!

And what the hell was a tampon doing in the men's room? ......

Log - what the hell the men were doing in the men`s room (to each other), is more to the point, with or without using tampons for nefarious purposes.

You Bolsheviks have no idea what you're talking about. I am the manager (80 employees), and I can tell you that very few of the people here work harder than I do. Almost none of them can speak with reliable knowledge about the manager's job, and I'm betting all the whining about managers in the above comments is exactly that.

I manage a mine, not a bookstore, so I'm sure the management-employee relationship is quite different. But there are only two types of employees 1) Those who take responsibility for the quality of their work, and are valuable during their entire shift. and 2) Those worthless oxygen-thieves, who just do the minimum to maintain employment. I can't even look at them.

I have never heard "that's not in my job description," from somebody in category #1. When I'm paying you $24 and hour plus benefits for your whole family and you say "that's not in my job description," It makes me want to feed you your teeth.

I started out at $3.35 an hour and have never said that. The day I do, I'll go home and cut my dick off so I can be just like the other people who say that.

Do bookstores not employ cleaners? They do in our country.

Wow, great discussion. Didn't mean to start such a contraversy. In answer to Sharty, and then I'll quit:
1. If you have work ethic, it will never be questioned, it will speak for itself.
2. If you have to rely on OSHA to get a fair shake, or to stop yourself from being injured in a bathroom, join the special olympics.
3. If, at the end of the day, it's not YOUR job, who's job is it?

You`re right Phillip, we still haven`t found out though whether james had a specific contract detailing his duties.

If he didn`t have one then he should have either faced the manager down, which he did (and got sacked if the manager had a pair of balls), or should have shown the manager the finger and walked.

Right on.

It's terribly interesting to me that most of this thread is focussing on the work ethic of the author rather than the bizzare events that occurred in the bathroom of a bookstore.

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You ever take a dump that made you feel like you'd just slept for twelve hours? - Ricky Roma (Al Pacino) in Glengarry Glen Ross

Yeah, me too.

This story should have been called "In the Barnes and Ignoble Bathroom".

Beer Shits (20) -- 07.20.2006
It's terribly interesting to me that most of this thread is focussing on the work ethic of the author rather than the bizzare events that occurred in the bathroom of a bookstore.

Because the only possible response to those unfortunate realities is, "Ewww!"

The tone and gist of the story is that James declined to clean the bathrooms. That IS the interesting conversational aspect.
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Mmmm...Fiber: Nature's Broom!

Sound like a new L.A. tourist attraction in the making.... I want to visit Magic Mountain, and some L.A. whores.... Perhaps I will committ a 'terrorist' act at one of B&N's stores..... Hey, NSA, CIA, & FBI! Read the webiste before you accuse me of 'terrorism'....

GottaGoGirl. Perhaps I am just in complete shock that at any given moment I could walk into this Barnes & Nobles and find bums shooting up, smearing shit on the walls, fucking and doing various "other" things that may or may not include tampons. Perhaps I am an idiot because when I initially read the story jamesinger's work ethic didn't even cross my mind.

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You ever take a dump that made you feel like you'd just slept for twelve hours? - Ricky Roma (Al Pacino) in Glengarry Glen Ross

HOLY POOP! You have to put up with THAT every single day?! I wouldn't work there, even as a last resort!!!
Poop on!

-Poopgirl

This tale was a true real-life Horror Story. I too was incredulous that a bathroom this disgusting existed, but then I read that the store was in LA, and it all made sense.

The posters attacking the OP for his work ethic seem to be very far removed from the minimum wage, cutthroat corporate exploitation that goes on in our society. Companies have no obligation to their workers anymore and can use them and lay them off with no warning. An employee's loyalty and work ethic don't mean a damn thing when the stockholders are only worried about the quarterly reports.

I don't know about B&N, but I've worked jobs similar, with no benefits at barely above minimum wage. I worked for an airline for "6.27 an hour!" as a baggage monkey. Of course, they also expected to learn the computer system to work the ticket counter, deal with irate customers, work the radio, clean the insides of the planes at night and help "marshall" the planes into the gate.

At some point you realize the work demanded of you is not equal to the shitty compensation. It's simple economics. The guy I started with busted his ass and ran himself ragged for that 6.27. And 6 months later the airline went bankrupt and laid off a bunch of people, this guy among them. So at what point is it "laziness" as some here would say, and at what point is it just intelligence and acumen to realize when you are being used, and to react accordingly?

Bottom line is the OP wasn't being paid enough to deal with a bathroom that fucked up. You get a damn janitor for that and compensate them accordingly. A company was trying to get things done on the cheap and assumed their book-monkey would just double as clean-up guy without question. Good for the OP in not getting bent over in that way.

Are the posters attacking him Anti-Union? I'd put money on it for most of them.

Nice point Poopmobile. And you know, maybe he couldn't find another job at that particular time.

My aren't we a judgemental bunch in this comment line.
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.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

Poopmobile, Daphne, and all you other bleeding hearts...listen up. You talk about faceless corporations, barely paying a minimum wage, for jobs that aren't worth doing? That these corporations should be daring enough to hope for a profit? That it is the corporations fault that the only job some poor schmuck can find is...oh my god...CLEANING a restroom, probably after his paid 15 minute break. Why,...this is a travesty, of truly Biblical proportions.

Hold on, let me rephrase that, and along the way-correct your kindergarten style thinking. The travesty is that you(the employee), believe that you should have every right to tell "cutthroat corporate exploitation"(your boss), how to run the business.

You needed a job right? So they hired you right? So do the damn job!...Or,...quit! Either way, stop biting the hand that feeds you. As long as you allow yourself to be at the bottom of the pile, someone will have to feed you, whether it's the government welfare rolls, or your tyrannical corporation.

Grow up a little bit, and learn how to look out for yourself. This argument over this thread is an indication of the mess that our entire Country is in right now. Everyone wanting so much reward for so little effort.

The world aint no cakewalk sweetheart, and the last time I checked, little bitty crybabies don't get to sit at the big people table.

Just so all of you know, I am NOT management, or even a boss. Though I am educated, and smart enough to cover my ass. I am honest to a fault, and earn every penny I get. If I say that something will get done, believe me, it gets done. Those are the kinds of things I was raised to believe in, and it sickens me to hear all of these "arguments" for half-hearted, lazy work ethic.

I don't mean to offend anyone who doensn't deserve it, but if you think I'm talking to you, then you're probably right.

What about those of us on disability
who wish that job service would
offer us a job that we are able
of doing? I was trained to be
a repair tech, and this is all
I am able of doing, I got fired
from janitor, plumber, construction,
and restaaurant work, well no poop,
Penelope, I am not able of that
kind of work. I wish there were
a job that I could do, say,
electronics repair? You can't
live on just disability, I have
a feeling someone out there is
prejudiced against the handicapped.

I think the only handicaps you would be able to lay claim to are bad grammar and stupidity.

Phil, I believe the correct phrases would be "to which you would be able to lay claim" and "poor grammar". Kettle.

And, even though it's off-topic, I'd like to respond to Ibly Piblo. Yesterday, I was thinking precisely about Ibly Piblo's point (however un-grammatical). We do not have an elevator in our building, and all of the clerical-ish things to which we must attend occur in the office (naturally), which is upstairs.

As I lugged 4 loaded cash tills up the double set of stairs, I reflected that an elevator sure would be nice, and then it occurred to me that a wheelchair-bound person could NOT do my job, as the secured counting room, the safe, and the administrative computers are ALL upstairs, with that ONE staircase the only access.

We also have to go up and down ladders all day, storing stock, and getting it down for customers if there's no more reachable. The cashiers have to maneuver both small and large items both out of and back into customers' carts. Receiving folks have to handle those same items.

Even the office person/secretary has to do inventory control, which means climbing and counting and tagging. There's not one job in our building that a wheelchair-bound person could accomplish.

There are A LOT of jobs like that. My only suggestion to you is to enroll in school and learn to do something marketable to the office world.
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Fecal Matters.

Now I'm going to stay up all night trying to diagram Phillip's sentence. There are at least two understood subordinating conjunctions, but I think he has achieved the rarity of a sub-subordinate clause.

Is there such a thing as a web site that automatically diagrams sentences? Does anybody younger than me on this site even know WTF a "diagram" is??

Yeah, it's in a little plastic case in the bathroo...

Oh. "DiaGRAM". Why, yes, as a matter of fact, I do; I knew I could count on you!
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Fecal Matters.

oh i know what sentence diagrams are, i just don't understand how to properly construct one. this may be a leading cause of my perenially terrible grammar. there's always the lush verbiage to look forward to though.

that was arrogant, ah well, i should think more.

Sharty, did you REALLY need to split the infinitive in your first post?

And may I also direct your attention to the "shift" key?

Now, back to your verbiage, you lush....

Just making sure everyone was paying attention, thanks for the heads-up.

Interesting conversation, and I agree with both sides. I recall a job I had working at a Wendys restaurant while in High School. The manager chose me to clean the bathrooms one night and I refused. I hate cleaning my own bathroom much less a public one (I just got chills thinking about it).

Anyway, this manager told me that I had to clean it or I was fired. So, I said OK.

So I went and got a mop, bucket, gloves, and then entered the bathroom and mopped everything. I mopped the toilet, mopped the mirrors, mopped the sink -- I mopped everything but the toilet paper. And I didn't touch anything but the mop handle -- and only with gloves on.

GROSS and HORRID, I know, but I did use some major industrial disinfectant, so the health danger to the public was probably minimal -- though I made it a point not to use the bathrooms myself.

Management was happy and so was I. As far as I was concerned, they got the (minimum wage) bathroom cleanup they were paying me for.

Public restrooms are social enigmas for as common as they are. I remember catching some guy PEEING into one of the hand soap dispensers once.

So, no matter how clean a bathroom looks, I always am careful about touching as little as possible.

The point you keep missing, Phillip deCrapper, et. Al., is this:

People working for minimum wage jobs are often taken advantage of by employers.
It's a FACT. There is more to life than cleaning up shit for $6 per hour. The people who choose to draw the line at this task have something called Personal Dignity, not a poor work ethic.
Ever hear the term “BIOHAZARD” or AIDS? Junkies in public restrooms can create a literal cesspool of disease- Tuberculosis, Hepatitis, HIV….not to mention the risk of getting accidentally stuck with a needle while cleaning. People who have to deal with those kinds of things, such as police officers, paramedics and people in Corrections have to take special AIDS prevention training and have regular TB tests for their own safety and the safety of their families. Working in a biohazard environment without that state-required training and the proper safety equipment is not only ILLEGAL, it is just plain stupid.
People who are going to be required to do this kind of thing must have the legally required training AND this must be disclosed to the person BEFORE they accept the job.
So, you go ahead, Phillip, and clean that shit-and-blood covered bathroom for 6 bucks an hour and risk getting infected or stuck with a needle to prove what a grand work ethic you have. I would rather be labeled as having a “bad work ethic” by an ignoramus like you than end up with Hepatitis or HIV for life.
Employers need to pay a fair wage for jobs that require people to run around like lackeys for power-hungry managers who only want to earn their own quarterly bonuses and do as little work as possible. Go read GGG's story for a perfect example of a lazy assed manager (who is paid MORE than the subordinate employee) who stands around and barks orders while making more money, getting more benefits, etc.
It is NOT TRUE that people who work hard and do everything they are told will move up in their companies. Grow up and stop living in fantasyland. There are always fewer management positions than subordinate positions available. People have to stay in low-paying jobs for YEARS with no benefits waiting for an opportunity to move up in their job ranks. Meanwhile, the managers and owners split the profits and get bonuses while the workers get nothing but their minimum wage and annual 2% raises.
Get realistic. What the hell kind of fantasy protective bubble are you living in where you happily clean up shit and puke for minimum wage while telling yourself, "Gee, someday I'LL be able to order people to clean this up!"
Ain't gonna happen.
If employees don't set limits for what they are willing to do for their pay, they will be taken advantage of by greedy employers, PERIOD.
Pay me minimum wage, I will cashier and stock shelves.
Pay me double minimum wage and provide me with the training and equipment I need, THEN I will clean the bathrooms.
But employers need to compensate according to the tasks required of the employee- NOT take advantage of the employees to line their own pockets.
Corporate greed is inexcusable; a six-figure executive makes his bonus money by paying someone minimum wage to clean up shit (literally) and maximizes profits by not hiring a janitor to do the job. THAT is unethical, greedy and inexcusable. And as long as workers DON’T stand up for themselves and refuse to do disgusting, dangerous jobs, the greed will go on. (And don't give me your crap about the exec. having worked his way up from shit-cleaner to manager. It doesn't work that way in the REAL world.)
What is TRULY a poor work ethic is managers hiring people on false pretenses, telling them they will be stocking and cashiering, then ordering them to clean junkie jizz off a bathroom floor.
But ultimately, I am thankful for people like you, Phillip, with such great work ethics. At least I know there are people out there who will clean up crap for minimum wage and whatever else I order you to do. If I ever decide to become a greedy corporate bastard someday, I will definitely have a place for YOU in my company.
/end poop

After just having to approve the above comment to be published, I re-read the entire thread, and I'd like to say

Up yours

to Phillup Decrapper.

I put in 15 years as an army spouse with no help from my family during births, deaths, family health problems, deployments that last longer than one year with no relief, and yet you infer I'm one of those "crybabies" who doesn't know life isn't a "cakewalk"? You don't think I've ever had to clean up shit?

For some of those 15 years, I was cleaning up shit, shit that would run from our bathroom down through our kitchen light to the floor and seep out from our stairs due to 60 year old plumbing. And I did it. And I didn't get paid. And no one would fix it because Army housing wasn't concerned about some E-7's wife and kids's health.

You don't know shit about me. It's because of women like me that our military doesn't fall to pieces during deployment on the home front.

Life isn't a cakewalk? What an entirely patronizing thing to say to someone you don't know. Hopefully now you know better.

_______
.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

This is why I would never work retail...too much crap like this goes on. My brother worked at a grocery store for 4 years and one day, a man just dropped trou and took a massive crap on the floor in front of the deli counter. And guess who the manager asked to clean it up? Actually, that was pretty funny...my brother didn't want to actually touch the poop, so he got out that big Zamboni-looking floor cleaning machine with the rotating brushes (retail workers probably know exactly what I'm talking about) and mowed over the mess. And the shit quite literally hit the fan. Or rather, the rotating brushes. And it went EVERYWHERE. My brother then had to clean up not only the floor, but the deli counter, all the shelves, and every surface within about a 4 foot radius.

I do find it pretty weird that this is a B&N bathroom...all the B&N bathrooms I've ever been in have been clean and pleasant. I figure the kind of clientele they get would complain if the johns weren't spotless.

_______
An apple a day keeps the ExLax away!

I spent 20 years in a job I absolutely hated. Why? Someone had to provide for the family, pay bills, and give uncle Sam his cut. I suppose I could have quit and tried something else, but I was raised to face duty irregardless of whether I'm enjoying myself or not. This isn't about those who are disabled physically or mentally and can not do a job, its about doing a job that you don't like because its the right thing to do. There is no guarantee that every moment of everyday is going to be filled with fun.
And just in case anyone cares, my job entailed wiping old people's butts, cleaning up blood, poop, pee, barf, snot, spit, and other assorted bodily fluids I'd just as soon forget. When a better job became available, I took it, true, but I didn't shirk the one I had.

One way you can get out of this is to look for other forms of income on the side, and gradually build upon them until you have enough outside sources that your are only working 10 hours a week, or even less.

_______
I'm so good at clogging up toilets, I can make mine back up when there's nothing in it.

Good theory, but some employers aren't interested in keeping you on if you keep reducing your availability.

If a person can come up with a living on the side, better to just go with it all the way and QUIT workin' for the Man, cleanin' up shit.

I know I would if I could, and someday I might be able to, but I was stupid and quit college, and so now to provide for my family, I do shit like this.

Anyone accepting resumes?

It all may come down to doing what one has to do to get by. If you're lucky enough to quit a ridiculous job, do it. If you can't you can't. The job I couldn't quit was being an army spouse, and I had to stick it out no matter the shit.

I am positive GGG will get by because she's tough, and I know I'll get by because I'm tough. And we should acknowledge that each person in his or her own life knows when enough's enough and when it's time to move on.

_______
.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

_______
juicyturds
you did what was best two thumbs up

I loved the post about B&N's clientele being the type that wouldn't put up with filthy bathrooms. Are you kidding? The freeloaders that hang out in there and, to a lesser extent, in Borders, are exactly the kinds of people who make the mess in the first place. Those people that treat the bookstore like their own public library rarely spend a penny there, even bringing food and drinks in with them, setting up their possessions in the freeloader reading area, napping off and on, etc., and fouling the bathrooms, knowing that someone else will clean up behind them. Why Barnes and Noble's management decided that attracting that crowd is good for business is beyond me. I see almost the same mix of marginal types hanging out in there that I would expect in a bus transfer station. The same people camp there, day after day, mashing the pages of books, folding back the pages of magazines, leaving virtually everything they touch unsellable. What mystifies me even more is that anyone could seriously criticize someone who takes on a job expecting to stock shelves, inventory books, or whatever, only to find out that swabbing down the filth of the low class habitues is part of the deal. Please, spare me the tales of how you took on a job and kept it for 20 years despite being daily revolted by the disgusting work you had to do because you had to "provide for the family". If the place you live has no better job opportunities than that, you really need to consider the possibility that you'd be better off elsewhere. There is absolutely nothing noble about enduring that kind of situation, unless you accompany it with the statement, "Of course, I'm really not intelligent enough, or talented enough, or possessed of enough self-respect to seek something better for myself."
_______
There's a certain air about me....

I've never had any trouble with any book store I've ever been to in my city. They're always clean and quiet. The sales people have always been helpful. But then again all of the book stores are located in the ritziest parts of town. Apparently if you're poor you don't read.

I'm at a loss as to what the "ritziest" part of town might be. I assume that's the suburbs. Since B&N and other book chains love to place outlets in downtown areas, they're bound to attract the shiftless - but not shitless - crowd to the reading areas where there are big comfy chairs in which those who have no intention of purchasing can laze the day away. The people who intend to buy something are rarely the types to want to sit reading in the lounge area. A friend of mine worked at Borders for about a year and she said the employees referred to the no-buy types as "DB"s, which stood for deadbeat. I agree that I don't understand what the corporate thinking is behind having areas of the store set aside for people who not only don't intend to buy anything but also end up damaging the books and magazines they sit reading for hours. Some of those people are absolute pigs. They rip the plastic off the wrapped magazines, they bend back the covers of everything they read, they leave stacks of books and periodicals on the floor next to the easy chairs for the staff to restock, they fall asleep in the chairs. Naturally you wouldn't expect to see these same slobs in the stores in the "ritzy" areas, since those areas are poorly served by public transit, which is the primary transportation for most of the loafers.
Oh...sorry...I forgot that this is supposed to be about poop and stuff. Okay: I'll bet those deadbeats poop and stuff!

I was born and raised in the suburbs where the ritzy live and bookstore as well as fast-food bathrooms are well kept up and not abused. Two years ago, however, after finishing college, I moved to the central part of our city and into an apartment that borders by one block a couple of transitional neighborhoods. Yes, I frequent the bookstores and, because of my age and graduate student schedule, I eat at a lot of the fast food establishments near by.

Granted, there is a "diverse" group using the bathrooms. Whether it's a fast-food place or bookstore, I pretty regularly take an opportunity to use the ladies' room before heading back out for walking and shopping. Yes, some of the homeless have really horrendous hygiene and leave behind in the toilets some pretty gross stuff. I do believe from observation that many have mental problems and/or records of drinking/drug abuse. This past July after a late Sunday morning breakfast of fast food, I went into the ladies room, quickly wiped off the seat and was beginning my crap when I heard an elderly lady in the stall next to mine curse because her garbage bag had tipped over and some of the contents had slid under the stall partition and into my stall. Among some crushed drink cups and straws, I WAS GROSSED OUT BY THREE DEAD BIRDS!

I quickly suspended my business, got myself presentable and bolted from the stall. I went to the counter, asked to see a manager and explained as calmly as I could to the shift supervisor what I had observed. She was not surprised and as we talked and watched the haggard looking lady leave with her bag secured tightly with her hand, it was explained to me that commitment of the mentally ill in the past 20 years has become very complex and often, impossible unless it can be solidly proven that they are a danger to themselves. She said little can be done and merely using the bathroom doesn't give police enough to prosecute for loitering. So be it, I guess.

I use such bathrooms less now and will walk back four blocks to my apartment in the hopes of avoiding such a situation in the future. However, just this noon I was reading USA Today and having my lunch in the one booth open--immediately closest to the restroom doors. Four young children--one looked like she couldn't be older than five--used the bathroom without parental supervision. That is something that can be and needs to be corrected!

It's not just homeless people using (and trashing) the bathrooms or the reading lounges in book stores. Maybe in fast food places it's a different situation. Yeah, I get the part about some of them being mentally ill, but it doesn't alter the outcome of their visits to the toilets that paying customers who support the businesses would also like to use. The cost of cleaning and repairing rest rooms is, like any business expense, one that is ultimately borne by the customer. I'd say the solution is to take one's business elsewhere, but in a medium sized city there's often little in the way of competition to the large book chains. The alternatives are to either shop the internet booksellers or make sure that you've emptied bowel and bladder before embarking on a shopping trip. If the urge to go comes upon you suddenly despite having taken precautions, so be it. You grit your teeth, hold your breath, and try not to make the situation last any longer than necessary as you squat above the caked remains of the last pooper. Heck, I have a respectable job but I once got a little careless on a public toilet and fired errantly, leaving a hunk of my mud hanging on the seat rim. I'm a little ashamed to admit it, but I didn't make a great effort to clean it thoroughly. The next person probably cursed me for being a pig. Maybe it's not just the low class folk and the street people who are soiling the place after all! I hereby take back every nasty thought I ever entertained about people who foul up the crappers I wish to use. See, now I'm worried that the Brown Karma will get me. Look what you started with this column! Now I have to go out and clean a toilet or something to get back on the positive side of the Brown Karma ledger!

I agree with Colleen that part of the problem is young children who are too little to practice cleanliness and produce in public bathrooms. It's insane that parents will allow a four year old or even a child a year or two older to go into the bathrooms by themselves. Why take chances! I was in a toilet at McDonald's last summer while traveling in Chicago and a very young girl unattended fell in the stall next to mine--the seat had been lifted for whatever reason and she hadn't checked it before venturing to sit down. I took her out to her mother who had about a three year old eating in their booth. The mom's reply to her was "I hope you've learned your lesson! Parental supervision and in the case of the bird lady described by Colleen (enforcement of mental health laws) is needed. I'm one girl who has never directly sat on an uncovered toilet seat and I'm not about to change what I was taught now!

AC: you seem to have a hang-up in that you slam anyone that doesn't view a situation as you do. The mother of the 4-year old is right in one respect--we tend to learn from unpleasant experiences and her daughter is probably a lot more careful in making sure the seat is down as a result of that incident.

My daughter is 5 and while I do take her to the door of such bathrooms (Barnes & Noble has only two or three stalls at the most)I do let her select her stall and she gets up on the toilet, does her thing, wipes, gets down, and then washes her hands. I want her to be independent and not have the hang-ups like you brag about: "I'm one girl who has never directly sat on an uncovered public toilet seat." Such hard and fast "rules" are not in the best interest of children and can cause serious trauma and resentments--and might I add, years afterwards. I'll take a child with confidence and a dirty butt anytime and anyplace, whether its a relatively nicer place like a bookstore or a 20-stall highly-used mega restroom at the metro arena!

I completely agree with Trac. As a single parent (divorced) with a son,6, and a daughter, 5, using the bathrooms at smaller places such as Barnes & Noble make a lot of sense.

What doesn't make sense is that people of both genders apparently expect heavily used bathrooms that serve a very diverse group of "customers" to be in the condition and meet the standards that we set for our homes and apartments.

My son has had a couple of friends from other apartments in our building come over to play and they pee over the seat. Perhaps they don't even aim. My girlfriend, who is a pre-school instructor, calls such things "teachable moments".

In public places my daughter has been afraid to close and latch the door and on a couple of instances has been embarrassed when others have barged in on her when she's been on the stool. In the most recent (I hope last!) case three weeks ago, she was crying because the door hit her knee and the teenager who did it just cussed at her and was pissed. Sorry, but craps take a little longer. Patieeence is a virtue!

Whether its Barnes & Noble, Wall-Mart or any retail store or entertainment/sports arena, people need to be realistic and respectful of others. Period!

Good Lord, I don't think a whole class full of kindergardener's could make that kind of a mess.

I would not have lasted long in that position. Management should keep the bathrooms locked, so people have to ask for a key to use the bathrooms.

It is a crying shame that grown men and women can have such total disregard for other people and their property.
_______
A man who farts in church, sits in his own pew.

As the mother of three daughters and a son, ranging in age from 4 to 11, I love the bathrooms at places such as Barnes & Noble. We go there at least once a week for reading and discovery time.

They usually have a least one toilet that's a little lower for the children and the bathrooms are generally well lit and kept up. Since there's only a couple of stalls in each, they are not as scarey for young children and they are not going to have two or three dozen people in various stages of activity and two dozen stalls like really large public places.

I do, however, insist that each of them goes in with me, allows me to inspect the stall and wipe off the seat, and they are required to stay on the stool until they produce. That eliminates the playing around or just going in because they are bored.

When it's my turn and I'm on the toilet, they are required to be right outside that stall so that I can see their feet and hear them. They are not to talk to anybody or play around. My son, who is 6, is required to use the ladies room with the rest of us, because, as is the case with earlier postings, you just don't know who is using such restrooms. That bird lady must have been one scarey, scarey person.

As far as I'm concerned, bathrooms in bookstores, like many service stations, could be locked to keep the vagrants and mentally ill out. Such situations only add to the anxiety we have about protecting our kids.

Weekend Father,who might just be recently divorced, is entirely too trusting. That's why I inspect the stall, make sure they latch the door, and insist that they not linger in such places. Also, Trac's philosophy seems much to liberal to me. I've seen public bathrooms that I have bypassed due to urine on the seats and even poop over the front of the bowl. When my children get done in the other stalls, I marvel at how many children are given a blank check to relieve themselves under such unhealthy conditions. If the parent were paying attention, I doubt the adult would even want to use such toilets! Yuk!

My girlfriend works at barnes & noble, and it is true. They make you / ask you to take care of the shit that happens in the bathrooms. Or anywhere in the store really (like barf...)

Now her's is located in a mall, so the chances of finding needles are slim. She just told me over the phone she had to clean up shit on the floor. Well, she didn't, one of her co-workers had the restroom duty today. She just changed the paper towels. But she has done some crap work in the past. I googled “B&N bathroom” and found this. Guess it is common practice at B&N.

I told her right off the bat that I would never do it. I'd say no. I tell her this every time she comes home with a story like that. Why wouldn't I do it if I where in her place?

A: I was hired as a bookseller
B: I do not have a degree in cleaning toilets
C: You are NOT paying me enough to clean that up (8bucks an hour)

If corporate chooses to have a toilet, then corporate can fork over the cash for a cleaning person to keep those places spotless. It is INSANE that they ask the people on the floor to clean that shit up, there are companies for that. And looking at the hourly wages they pay their staff they can afford to call a company like that if something like that occurs. Or hire a single cleaning person like I said before.

And I would seriously blow up if I would get fired because of not wanting to clean a toilet. If it’s not in my job description, I won’t do it if it’s unreasonable. And cleaning toilets / come in contact with crap that is not your family’s) is unreasonable for everyone but a plumber and a cleaning guy. I am willing to run the extra mile once in a while, but when there are human excrements involved? Count me out.

As a result of all the posts, I've become more cautious in personally using and having my children use, the bathrooms at our favorite bookstore. Each week we spend either Saturday or Sunday afternoons there.

I've started putting toilet paper over the seat before sitting on it and I'm doing that for my five year old, even though she fights it and moves around so much that she gets off it. I'm no longer allowing my 7-year-old to go in alone to the mens room; I now take him into the ladies room where I can more closely monitor his procedures. He hates it but I want to see a stall before he goes in. Besides, because of his small physical size, I worry about him not being able to use a urinal without dragging his penis over the dirty bowl. We were at an amusement park this summer when a man brought him out and suggested that he was too young and inexperienced to use the urinal because of that reason.

My best friend and her children were with us last Sunday and thinks I may be over-reacting but when it comes to my children, I'd rather err on the side of caution.

If I'm "overprotective" so be it!

Dumpster. Did you diagram the sentance? I don't see it anywhere...

What sentence, DD? There've been about 10,000 of them since my last post.

When I was 5 and had just started kindergarten my Mom allowed me to go without supervision into the bathrooms at both Barnes & Noble and Wal-Mart. That was huge for me to go in, select my stall, get up on the stool, pee or poop, and then to take responsibility for both wiping and flushing before I came out to wash my hands. I loved the independence and sometimes when I would get bored during the Saturday morning story hour I would go in just to get up on the stool and to act grown up. In large places such as ball parks, our city auditorium and at rest stops when we were traveling, Mom would always go into the stall with me, put paper over the seat, tell me not to touch the seat or flusher--stuff that I found really embarrasing, especially when I had friends with me. So I'll always remember Barnes & Noble and Wal-Mart as being great places for me to demonstrate my independence. Even now, 15 years later, both stores have nicely kept up bathrooms. I wish I could sit directly on the stools at the mall, gas stations and at the university I attend but that would be gross! So I put paper over the seat before sitting down and I use my foot to flush. Even then, sometimes someone's pee on the seat goes right through the toilet paper. Why is it so hard for people to pick up after themselves. If a young child was to sit on some of those seats (and I've seen this happen) I just cringe to think of the germs being passed on.

I have long wondered about this kind of stuff. I walked into a Meijers bathroom here in the midwest US a few years ago, and I swear, someone would have literally needed a shovel to clean out the toilet. I could only figure that multiple people for a joke kept dumping in the same toilet without flushing.

First-Time Tina got off lucky. Even the smaller bathrooms at stores such as Barnes & Noble & Wal-Mart were off-limits to me without my mom supervising until I was about 9 or 10! Her famous line: "One of these days you're going to thank me...." still haunts me! "Use your foot on the flusher," "you're moving around too much and you're getting off the toilet paper," and "you always want to put one of the seat covers down" were among the orders barked at me. Despite my friends having a lot more freedom, using public bathrooms was not a pleasant experience for me. If anything, it would encourage me to "hold it" until we got home and I could relieve myself without conflict or nagging. If anything, I'm bending over backwards today to make sure my daughters aren't being victimized by such rhetoric.

Boy oh Boy james, I sincerely hope that when you get a REAL job above minimum wage that you change your attitude. Cleaning the toilet is NOT my idea of fun BUT then again I think I would even be less than thrilled at cleaning someone elses shit. What concerns me is your lack of work ethic and your contempt for upper management. How do you expect to get ahead with that attitude? We all have things in our jobs we hate doing
_______
The Thunderous Crapper 63 Enjoying home toilet advantage since 2004!

I have worked at Barnes and Noble for 5 years. I am a regular bookseller. I hate the place but I have to work there because I don't have the luxury of being young and having mommy and daddy to keep me on their insurance and give me money when I want it. You sign a paper when you come to work there saying that you will do certain things. Cleaning the bathrooms, selling the membership card, and other disagreeable things are part of that.

If the person complaining about the bathrooms had read their packet they would know that. It IS NOT ONE OF THE MANAGERS DUTIES. I have put up with people like this person since I have worked in retail (Books A Million for 5 years before BN) They say they have a degree so they don't have to clean bathrooms. Who cleans them? The people like me who HAVE to work there either to feed their families or to have insurance to pay for the $800 a month worth of medicine that they would die without.

Do you really think I like to clean shit off the walls? You are provided with gloves, cleaning supplies, mops, brooms, even masks if you ask for them. You were just being stuck up and rude to leave this to somebody else. At our store we are barely given enough people to run it let alone somebody to spend every hour cleaning up the bathrooms even though that is our job and we get graded by secret shoppers on how clean our bathrooms are.

Don't get me wrong this is one of the worst jobs I have ever worked at but I don't have the luxury to walk out or talk back to a manager who could fire me, so me or somebody just like me ends up doing that persons work. As far as not having the same person cleaning and working on the bookfloor because it's unsanitary. You better believe it is, I've stuck my hand in baby shit more times than I can tell you because a baby has crapped in the floor and the parents threw books on top of it to cover it up.

Not only did I stick my hand in it when I was cleaning the tornado that the rotten brats leave behind every hour but they also damaged over a hundred dollars worth of books which eventually comes out of our payroll and gives us even less employees for the store.

Also because only about 80 percent of the people that go in the bathrooms don't wash their hands and then go out and wipe them on books which they then throw in the floor for me to pick up and put back on the shelf, I get every virus and nasty junk that comes along. Everybody that works retail does because most customers are nasty and then we have to put up with them yelling at us all day for things we either don't do, or have nothing to do with, like the fact that we're worn out and sick and we don't have enough people to look up the list of books you have because we have to get all the books out, and all the books that they and their kids throw down in the floor, plus clean the place.

We get graded on these things and it does affect any raise we do or do not get. We do have people that come in the morning and vacuum and mop the floor and I thank God for them, but nobody cleans the shit that people do in there at least every hour. Are bathrooms in BN and other retail stores that nasty and disgusting, you bet.

Do I want to clean up shit that you wont just because you have a college degree and think you're to good to do that NO but most of the time I'm not given a choice.

I will hella back you up on this. at my store this homeless guy took a shit in a book and stamped it everywhere. there is cum shit period blood and more everywhere at the end of the night. a homeless lady just took her tampon out the other day and smeared blood everywhere. its the grossest shit. i swear its at every barnes and noble in the world

That this sort of problem exists in bookstores does not surprise me as much as it would have, had I not had a very unpleasant bookstore experience here in the UK. Two or three years ago I needed a shit whilst shopping in Leeds. I went into Borders because I've used their facilities in London several times without problem. There were two stalls, and in both of these, it was as if someone had stood in the doorway, and sprayed a projectile shite all around, then pissed all over the effects and randomly chucked TP around for good measure. This is the only time I've actually gone into a stall to shit and walked straight back out again.

I worked at B&N for a year, and I was astounded at the stories I heard from the bathroom. The store was in a mall in a very affluent, snooty area. Yeah, the teenagers would screw things up, but there were many acts of turd terrorism in the bathrooms. Thank God I never had to clean them, as I was a barista in the cafe, and they were usually clean when I went in. But the store was grateful for the folks who did clean--one woman, after washing crap-fiti off the walls, was awarded with a gift card, etc. As she said, "For such an upscale bookstore and clientel, people sure do like to play with their poop!"

_______
Assaulting toilets and loving furry creatures since 1977!

When I read this story, I thought "Either NY or LA"

I'm 25 and just out of college and starting my career, one that requires travel over a four-state area. Because I don't hit the bars, I do spend some evenings at Barnes & Noble and similar chain bookstores. More often than not, I use the bathroom there. I go into a stall, sit right down, wipe (with a couple of exceptions there's always been toilet paper and it was MY fault for not checking first!) and there's always been soap and accommodations for drying my hands.

I have found the dirtiest of the bathrooms to be in stores located in downtown storefronts, not malls. Colleen, with her 11/4/06 posting, notes that the heavy traffic from the street/homeless people and sometimes mentally ill (I would not want to use that stall after the bird lady either!)is difficult to control and presents maintenence challenges.

Bookstores which are located in suburban malls draw a different clientele that ranges from the elderly to preens. I was in a stall, taking a leisurely crap last month, when a group of preens came in apparently when they had just got out of school. There were four or five of them, playing around and competing for open stalls on both sides of me. I stayed on the stool longer than I had expected because I didn't want to deal with their shoving, language and other issues I could readily hear. The girl to my right made a very loud fart before she crapped and the others waiting were trying to emulate it. One turned on the sink water and the other turned on additonal water to drown out the noise. I saw a couple eyes peek in on my stall. Then they turned on the girl to my left. Her friend was pounding on that stall door saying she had to pee so bad her panties were already wet. Another girl challenged her to get up on one of the sinks, but I don't think she did. They were gone after about five minutes; not one of the girls flushed or washed their hands!

After reading the posts, I don't know why public restrooms tend to bring out the worst in people. I'm a marketing major, not a sociologist or psychologist, but I know from the 18 hours of political science classes I had that more "social control" regulations/procedures for public restrooms would probably be met with resistance from customers.

My boyfriend, who loves PoopReport.com, is looking over my shoulder as I write this. He feels I did the right thing by staying in my stall and saying nothing. But I don't know.

Sandi should have reported to management the incident she described in the bookstore bathroom. It sends a wrong message that a customer using a stall under such circumstances should have to put up with the disrespect, language and abuse of the facilities. And the lack of flushing and handwashing sends the wrong signal to the next user of the stall. I suspect the girls, whom I believe she said were middle school-age, need more parental supervision if they are going to be allowed to use public restrooms. Far too few parents today are teaching their children to respect others, and in the case of bathrooms, proper use, hygiene and decorum. It's sad but on other threads I've seen postings by school teachers that corroborate the seriousness and magnitude of the problem. Management and mall security need to crack down when such complaints are filed.

When we're shopping at the mall and one of my daughters (ages 4, 6 & 8) or my son (11) has to use the bathroom, we will walk to the other end of the complex and deliberately use the bathrooms at Barnes & Noble. All of us prefer them because they are much smaller and easier to use than the much larger, multi-stall restrooms provided in the mall. And because they receive considerably less traffic, they are much cleaner. My son had an emergency earlier this year and complained that in the mall restroom, only two of six stalls had doors. No 11-year-old should have to make a decision about crapping his pants or humiliating himself about using an open stall. He chose the latter, and worse yet, said there was a line waiting. The toilets in the Barnes & Noble stores serve a valuable function. I've seen many moms use them as "training" rooms for pre-schoolers who need practice being independent, but who are not yet confident enough to conquer the hassles of the much-larger (and I might add dirtier) mall bathrooms.

I'm so sick of the preen invasions of public restrooms like Sandi described. They enter in loud, noisy groups and are very disrespectful to users. Like Sandi said, I think the problem is even more acute at the malls because I've seen parents drop them off (some in van loads) and they just run wild. I like the peaceful nature of Barnes & Noble stores, but their antics are so immature. Getting up on a sink to pee, joking about peeing their pants, peeking in on other users (why mine--other stalls were in use too!) and the crude language is offensive to many adults; even those in our 30s who don't consider outselves to be prudes. Just last month I was on the stool at a B&N mall store right after school got out. A group of about five or six of the girls came running in and seemed to want to take over the bathroom. One eye looked in on me at least three different times within a three minute period. After the third time, I asked her not to do that again. Her response: "Well, you're looking at me too *****!" I reported it to the main check-out when I left, but while they were apologetic, I doubt that anything will be done.

Let.s face it. The only reason they ask their sales employee's to clean bathrooms so they do not have to pay more money for someone else to do it. Well I will do my job. They did not hire me to clean the bathroom's. I cleaned people,s behinds as a PCT. I did not mind it came as part of the job . The risk of getting hepatitis came with the job to. I hope your store carrys good insurance on you because you will need it from picking up germs. But then they are to cheap to hire someone else to do the toilets I bet they will not have good insurance.

I will never, ever clean the bathroom of a profitable corporate entity unless I have been hired specifically to do so and am provided with all of the proper tools, disinfectants and safety gear. I do work at B&N, and the thought that they would even ask is ludicrous. But they do. Frequently.
Now if the entire store or chain is on the skids and everyone from the CEO on down is engaged in drastic cost-cutting measures just to keep the doors open, I'd consider it, given the supplies listed above.
The minimal cost of a trained and properly equipped cleaning service is just a cost they should absorb for the comfort of their employees and customers.
I really feel bad for the managers who ask us to do this, as they are either:
A) So desensitized by the corporate environment they cannot see how clearly ridiculous this request is.
B) Secretly cowering in fear of losing their jobs if they don't tow the line.
C) Just dumb asses who got promoted by cleaning the bathrooms when the previous manager asked them.

If your company is making a profit, it can afford a proper cleaning crew.

I don't think some of you read where if you go to work at Barnes and Noble you DO sign up to clean the bathrooms. It's in your hiring packet you have to sign it before you are hired. EVERYBODY has to do it if you don't you are not hired. Nobody says it's the right thing to do, nobody does it to move up the corporate ladder (they hire people in for management, you seldom "move up")I'm just sick of having to do things because people getting their degrees think themselves too good to do it. I don't want to do it, it's not safe for me either but I don't have anything else to fall back on, no parent's safety net. I don't think anybody should have to do this but as long as you have assholes that do things they do in bathrooms somebody has to clean it. Like I said if you work there you sign a paper saying you will do it before you are hired, so don't pretend like you didn't sign on to clean bathrooms because that's exactly what you did do. And whoever said in one of the statements that they would never do that for minimum wage of $6 obviously doesn't have a clue anything about that or you would know that minimum wage is as low as $5.85 (just went up from $5.35)in some states, including mine and one or two even lower than that. Besides, BN pays well in comparison to other retail stores, just never enough for all the crap you have to clean up and put up with every day.

This made me think. My husband is HAZMAT certified, mostly in the biochemical waste category, but he has to know a little bit about everything. When I asked him what the difference between this type of mess - needles, blood, condoms, shit, pee - and all the other types of human organic messes that Barnes and Noble expects its workers to clean up and those dealt with by his HAZMAT-certified friend who cleans up crime scenes in Tacoma, he said the following...

"I can't really think of a big difference except with the amount of blood and brain matter. Both parties would deal with possibly-HIV or other types of human infectious diseases-related material. The only real differences are firstly, that this is Barnes and Nobles' call, that they think it's acceptable for their workers to deal with the public and handle books meant for the public and then touch shit, needles, and condoms. Second, Barnes and Noble is having their employees handle some of the same material crime scene clean-up crews touch without protective gear."

Then he asked me "Are you sure this is the way they clean their bathrooms?" I said, "It appears so." He said, "Ew." and shuddered. "I don't think we'll be taking Thing One (our daughter) to get her Shojo Beat at Barnes and Noble anymore."

For this family, it's Waldenbooks from now on.

_______
.....hugging bunnies since 1969
www.daphneszoo.com

I love bookstores and have visited B&N dozens of times, occasionally having to use their bathroom, including to poop. Without exception, it has been clean, pleasant, and usually uninhabited except for me. From my experience with these stores in several states, I would say the experience described above is exceptionally poor; I've never seen anything remotely like it.

I doubt if going to Waldenbooks will help any. I've worked at both Books A Million and Barnes and Noble a total of ten years and they are both the same way. I have friends that work at Waldens and they have the same stories. At BN they at least hire somebody to come in in the morning and clean up at least once so the workers don't have to. BAM doesn't hire anybody it is the sole responsibility of the workers to clean it all the time. At both stores you are given gloves, masks, and any other things you would need to clean it. I'm sick all the time from every virus known to man. I don't think it is from cleaning the bathrooms as much as I hate that but I think it is from picking up the books and things that people throw in the floor and leave all over the place. If you go in the bathroom for just a minute you'll realize that only a few people wash their hands. I'm talking about the womens bathroom by the way. I see women in nice business suites come in, go to the bathroom and then go straight out the door. People have feces and untelling what on their hands then handle all the books, throw them in the floor or leave them on a table in big stacks. I come along and have to pick up after them and get all those germs all over me. I use sanitizing gel and wipes which my store does provide but it doesn't seem to help much. So basically even if we didn't have to deal with the bathrooms we still have to deal with the nasty public who make the nasty mess in the nasty bathrooms and then bring it all out to the floor and leave it all over the books, counters, tables, and chairs for us to still clean up but without the gloves, masks, and cleaning equipment. Please wash your hands!!!

Maybe you need to call Osha for an inspection of the books for the urine and fecal contamination. There might be a poondemic of infection flooding the public from the unsanitary practices of the population within these afore-mentioned bookstores. Maybe the place needs to be disinfected book by book. Maybe signs need to be placed stating not placing books on the floor and wash your hands